upgraded clutch jumps forward when put in gear

2386 Views 15 Replies 9 Participants Last post by relgrenSehT, 4 mo ago

el jefe

Discussion Starter · 6 mo ago

I upgraded and got a Barnett kevlar clutch and with springs and pressure plate, along with oil pickup. Everything seemed to go back together well and the bike is able to find neutral and shift through the gears while the bike is off. When the bike is on and clutch is pulled the bike starts in neutral but jumps forward and stalls when I shift into first gear with clutch still engaged. I have adjusted the tension in the clutch cable so the clutch is SUPER tight, as well as loosened it to have slack, yet the results are the same...

Any issue what could be causing issue? I know from watching other install videos that the clutch bearing is flipped the wrong way with the letting facing inward. Could that be causing the issue though? Have seen issues on here with the clutch slipping, but not for always engaged.

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shush319

· #2 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

Probably not getting enough grab. Remove most of the adjustment at the lever (screw in) & adjust the slack out at the motor and try again.

Did you put a pressure plate or lifter plate on it? Lifter plate is the one that holds the springs to the clutch basket..... If it's a Koso, there were some that bottomed out in the basket, had one on my girls bike & her clutch was crap even with new plates & 60% springs..... Took it off after about 1000 miles & you could see where it was bottoming. Got one off a guy in CA that makes & sells them on ebay pretty cheap, worked perfectly afterwards. Honda Grom & Monkey Billet Clutch Plate For Big Bore 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 | eBay

426john

· #3 · 6 mo ago

You could have the clutch basket out of sequence ,the inner and outer , need to bottom out.

el jefe

Discussion Starter · #4 · 6 mo ago

i adjusted the slack out of the clutch from the perch, the lever, and the motor-end. All had the same stall out type results.

Here are the parts I attempted to install:
Chimera Clutch Lifter Plate (Chimera V2 CNC Clutch Lifter Plate - Honda Grom 125, Monkey 125 (2014-2020))
Modified 6-Bolt/Spring Lifter Plate (MODIFIED (6 BOLT) GENUINE HONDA OEM CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE - HONDA GROM 125 (2014-2020))
Barnett Kevlar Clutch Kit (Barnett Performance Products Honda Grom 125 Complete Kevlar Clutch Kit (2014-2020))

...I also upgraded the oil pump, which seems to function properly on its own.

I have watched all the install videos I can find as well as followed the clutch diagram meticulously. The clutch and clutch cable feel good, and are able to have tension as well as slack to adjust. Shifting through gears with the bike turned off feels great, and seems to be in correct order. However, once started in neutral, bike stalls out and dies when shifting into gear.

shush319

· #5 · 6 mo ago

el jefe said:
i adjusted the slack out of the clutch from the perch, the lever, and the motor-end. All had the same stall out type results.

Here are the parts I attempted to install:
Chimera Clutch Lifter Plate (Chimera V2 CNC Clutch Lifter Plate - Honda Grom 125, Monkey 125 (2014-2020))
Modified 6-Bolt/Spring Lifter Plate (MODIFIED (6 BOLT) GENUINE HONDA OEM CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE - HONDA GROM 125 (2014-2020))
Barnett Kevlar Clutch Kit (Barnett Performance Products Honda Grom 125 Complete Kevlar Clutch Kit (2014-2020))

...I also upgraded the oil pump, which seems to function properly on its own.

I have watched all the install videos I can find as well as followed the clutch diagram meticulously. The clutch and clutch cable feel good, and are able to have tension as well as slack to adjust. Shifting through gears with the bike turned off feels great, and seems to be in correct order. However, once started in neutral, bike stalls out and dies when shifting into gear.

Put the stock lifter plate back in & see if the problem still exists.

Reactions: 1

PitBike

· #6 · 6 mo ago

Before starting when cold, pull in clutch, shift to second and roll forward till the clutch frees

Reactions: 2

el jefe

Discussion Starter · #7 · 6 mo ago

@PitBike Ok that sounds like a solid test if I move forward with installing all the new parts again. Right now has the og lifter and pressure plates and not catching any gears..

The most recent test I had done installed the og lifter plate and pressure plate, using the upgraded clutch and clutch springs. I measured the entire clutch stack new vs old, and both came out to 19.3mm. So I assume either clutch is should work. Most recent install resulted in the bike being stuck in neutral and not able to shift into any gears. I went ahead and drained the bike again already because I was a little suspicious with the install. the suspicion was when torqueing the clutch locknut down to 47ft. lbs, the clutch was still wanting to spin (NOT THE CLUTCH BASKET with the gears being held in place, that part was not spinning). I torqued it down but didn't like how it seemed to be slipping. I made sure to inspect all washer placement thoroughly afterwards thinking that was likely the issue, but they all seem very much in their spot. After draining, I also didn't like how easily the bearing fell out, but if I remember right, it pretty much fell out of og pressure plate upon original removal also.

It's been cold and defeating out here, so I've been only attempting an install attempt per week for my sanity. Going to move forward with step by step install again this week with a friend. fingers crossed

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shush319

· #8 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

el jefe said:
@PitBike Ok that sounds like a solid test if I move forward with installing all the new parts again. Right now has the og lifter and pressure plates and not catching any gears..

The most recent test I had done installed the og lifter plate and pressure plate, using the upgraded clutch and clutch springs. I measured the entire clutch stack new vs old, and both came out to 19.3mm. So I assume either clutch is should work. Most recent install resulted in the bike being stuck in neutral and not able to shift into any gears. I went ahead and drained the bike again already because I was a little suspicious with the install. the suspicion was when torqueing the clutch locknut down to 47ft. lbs, the clutch was still wanting to spin (NOT THE CLUTCH BASKET with the gears being held in place, that part was not spinning). I torqued it down but didn't like how it seemed to be slipping. I made sure to inspect all washer placement thoroughly afterwards thinking that was likely the issue, but they all seem very much in their spot. After draining, I also didn't like how easily the bearing fell out, but if I remember right, it pretty much fell out of og pressure plate upon original removal also.

It's been cold and defeating out here, so I've been only attempting an install attempt per week for my sanity. Going to move forward with step by step install again this week with a friend. fingers crossed

When I have to take the covers off the motor(one side or the other) & there is fresh oil in there, I will lay the bike over on its side & rest the handle bar on a stool, that way the oil goes to the other side of the motor & I don't have to drain the oil every time ;-)....

With the clutch completely assembled & bolted together, can you feel any play on the clutch plates in the basket? If you feel play between the plates, you need to rotate #8 in this pic 1 hole at a time until it all sandwiches together with no play. The cogs on #8 have to slot into the grooves on #12 properly or you'll won't have any clutch at all.

Another silly ??, is #15 in the hole it goes into in the cover?

Automotive tire Organism Font Motor vehicle Auto part

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Reactions: 1

shush319

· #9 · 6 mo ago

Just had the clutch cover off mine last night to change the Chimera lifter plate out & add 60% springs, from the ebay seller I linked before. Holy crap this clutch grabs now, absolutely zero slip launching HARD! Oil only has maybe 400-500 miles on it, so I leaned the bike over on a stool like mentioned before & lost only drops of oil from inside the cover

. Had to readjust the clutch cable afterwards on the motor side.

Took the time to clean the screen & Takegawa light weight spinner too since it was apart, still collecting debris from the stock tensioner wheel disintegrating, but much less of it this time around.

guercia1337

· #10 · 5 mo ago

I know exactly what your problem is. Mine did the exact same thing plus hard shifting. When you put the plates in the basket you need the rounded edges touching. Take all of them out and feel the edge of the clutch plates and metal plates. One edge is sharp and the other is round. Put the metal plate in round edge up and then clutch disk in round edge down. Then metal up, clutch down and so on so on. I promise you'll notice a world of difference. Mike at Mo' Power told me to do that when i had the same issue a few months ago and has been smooth ever since

Pard

· #11 · 5 mo ago

guercia1337 said:
I know exactly what your problem is. Mine did the exact same thing plus hard shifting. When you put the plates in the basket you need the rounded edges touching. Take all of them out and feel the edge of the clutch plates and metal plates. One edge is sharp and the other is round. Put the metal plate in round edge up and then clutch disk in round edge down. Then metal up, clutch down and so on so on. I promise you'll notice a world of difference. Mike at Mo' Power told me to do that when i had the same issue a few months ago and has been smooth ever since

Never hear of that before. Can you link to pictures or video of the different edges on the plates?

Is it only Barnett plates?

No difference in the edges on the SMR plates I use.

No mention of edges here:

Barnett Clutches and Cables

www.barnettclutches.com

Reactions: 1

JDM ego2033

· #12 · 5 mo ago

Pard said:
Never hear of that before. Can you link to pictures or video of the different edges on the plates?

Is it only Barnett plates?

No difference in the edges on the SMR plates I use.

No mention of edges here:

Barnett Clutches and Cables

www.barnettclutches.com

hey its me, i didnt realize i linked a separate account lmao. But I never seen a video demonstrating that but there is an edge. I have another set i can try to make a video myself showing the edges. Its not very apparent unless you feel for it with your fingers along the edge. I run that exact clutch kit and it did the exact same thing until I flipped a few of the disks around. I had maybe half installed facing the right way and the other half weren't. I felt for the edge and had the round edges face eachother and now it shifts 1000x better. Ill see if i can PM you a video of me checking the edges. I never heard anyone mention it either until Mike mentioned it when i told him my problem. He said Ducati clutches are like that and not many people seem to know about that when installing these kits

Reactions: 1

Pard

· #13 · 5 mo ago

Interesting indeed. The edges of the fiber or metal discs do not touch the adjoining plates, so what mechanism is at work that would make a difference? How was it explained to you as being important?

Reactions: 2

stellio78

· #14 · 5 mo ago

Good to watch.

JDM ego2033

· #15 · 5 mo ago

Pard said:
Interesting indeed. The edges of the fiber or metal discs do not touch the adjoining plates, so what mechanism is at work that would make a difference? How was it explained to you as being important?

Sorry i just saw this. I was only told that it was a thing you had to do when installing the disks and that if the edges dont face they wont make good contact and cause jumping and hard shifting. I just took that a face value because the one who told me that is very knowledgeable and knows his shit. I did what he said and made a world of difference. No more jumping and shifts smooth as can be

relgrenSehT

· #16 · 4 mo ago

As a layman the clutch plate directionality makes sense to me. If you picture one side of the friction plate as grippier than the other, then having them all face the same direction means that all the metal plates get even and smooth grab. Whereas if you have two grippy parts facing each other then you’ll have too much grab on one metal disc and that one extra-gripped metal plate will screw up the feel of the whole rest of the clutch.

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