Honda Grom banner
101 - 120 of 187 Posts

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #101 · (Edited)
Translation is kind of rough but the picture below shows the piston used to make the ring horizontal in the cylinder and ring gap measured.

Picture of piston in the cylinder upside down, the description box and line, it says "Piston Ring" and points to piston ring sitting on the piston crown to be leveled for gap measurement.

90306


Edit: It does say to replace at those stated numbers, which is what I set mine to.

That means they can be run tighter.

The question is how much? The bike is already very quick. My worries are overheating like Cisco's bike did multiple times.

I still haven't gotten mine broken in. Still waiting on removing the exhaust restrictions plus adding the second oil cooler.

When I ran the bike around town I got close to 100 mpg which is better than the 181 2 valve I had prior and much faster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I went over the instructions again and I cannot see anywhere that ring gap numbers are provided other than that one section.

View attachment 90305

Did you find ring gap specs?

Another section mentions thickness of the rings themselves at .8mm for 1 and 2 and oil ring 1.5mm.

Those are the thickness of the rings themselves.
Yeah if you translate that last page, that's maintenance and service limits.. the manual doesn't provide Ring gap info.. i used Check for Proper Ring End Gap (wiseco.com) to work out my ring sizes.. not saying that's correct, but that last page is definitely maintenance and service limits

90308
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Yeah if you translate that last page, that's maintenance and service limits.. the manual doesn't provide Ring gap info.. i used Check for Proper Ring End Gap (wiseco.com) to work out my ring sizes.. not saying that's correct, but that last page is definitely maintenance and service limits

View attachment 90308
I saw that chart before but went with the numbers in the instructions.

I'll have to get another piston and rings and tighten up the gaps. Not sure a huge power gain would be had from dropping .02mm from the compression rings.

I also wonder if that chart reflects forged vs cast pistons and at what compression ratio.

I was under the impression that the cast pistons offer more expansion than the forged Pistons, another reason the larger numbers seemed acceptable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
If it works don't mess with it. I am no expert at all! Just thought i post that in case someone else stumbles upon this build thread.. I have also just installed the Takegawa 181 4v kit and my biggest scare was installing the piston an rings..
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #106 ·
Heat could be from blowby then. Combustion gasses and pressure getting into the crank case.
As mine is breaking in it isn't running very hot unless I'm loading the engine and building a lot of heat.

When I was running the tall gearing, 17/32, in 5th gear running up a slight climb out of the valley it would get hot.

After lowering the gearing back to stock and making 5th usable it has cooled down. Also, long high speed sections I've been running in 4th or 3rd gear to minimize load on the engine.

If the exhaust ever gets done, it had really big restrictions which would not allow heat to escape which was burning up the packing in a very short amount of time.

Once those restrictions are gone and the engine can breathe I expect even cooler running temps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
As mine is breaking in it isn't running very hot unless I'm loading the engine and building a lot of heat.

When I was running the tall gearing, 17/32, in 5th gear running up a slight climb out of the valley it would get hot.

After lowering the gearing back to stock and making 5th usable it has cooled down. Also, long high speed sections I've been running in 4th or 3rd gear to minimize load on the engine.

If the exhaust ever gets done, it had really big restrictions which would not allow heat to escape which was burning up the packing in a very short amount of time.

Once those restrictions are gone and the engine can breathe I expect even cooler running temps.
What temps are you getting on long rungs? At 100 kph i end up with a temp of 107c for the cylinder and around 86c from the drain plug. I'm waiting on a catch can as i have oil coming out of the crank case hose on those long runs.. have completed 550km since installing the big bore, temps continually improve the more it breaks in.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #108 ·
I only have the oil temperature from the stock sensor.

If it is 50 mph or less it doesn't see much above 190°f or 90°C.

In 5th gear ony climb out of the valley at 65 to 70 mph is when I see temps go up to 240°F or 115°C.

If I drop to 4th gear then the temps will go down into the 210 to 230°F depending on the incline and/or headwind.

Even though the power is there to carry higher speeds the engine does not like to be loaded.

I've gone down hill in 5th cruising at 65 mph and the oil temps drop into the 180°F range.

Lowering the gearing so it can use revs more, catch can, getting the fender out of the way of the oil cooler made a big difference in oil temps.

Lastly, since the oil sensor probe is in the cam chain tunnel it gives falsely higher readings.

Tested this by just leaning the bike over to the left side while riding straight to get more oil flow into the sensor and the temps immediately drop quite a bit.

At some point I may switch to the Takegawa TFT dash and get another sensor setup so a more accurate temp can be had.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #109 ·
Also, mine gets better with break in.

When I get the exhaust back and it is fully open and not corked up I'll expect even better heat dissipation since it won't be held in the system/head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I only have the oil temperature from the stock sensor.

If it is 50 mph or less it doesn't see much above 190°f or 90°C.

In 5th gear ony climb out of the valley at 65 to 70 mph is when I see temps go up to 240°F or 115°C.

If I drop to 4th gear then the temps will go down into the 210 to 230°F depending on the incline and/or headwind.

Even though the power is there to carry higher speeds the engine does not like to be loaded.

I've gone down hill in 5th cruising at 65 mph and the oil temps drop into the 180°F range.

Lowering the gearing so it can use revs more, catch can, getting the fender out of the way of the oil cooler made a big difference in oil temps.

Lastly, since the oil sensor probe is in the cam chain tunnel it gives falsely higher readings.

Tested this by just leaning the bike over to the left side while riding straight to get more oil flow into the sensor and the temps immediately drop quite a bit.

At some point I may switch to the Takegawa TFT dash and get another sensor setup so a more accurate temp can be had.
Seems like our temps are roughly the same.. So i'm glad to hear that. I think if i pushed it to 70 mph, i would be around that 240f mark as well. I'm running the Kitaco 5 row oil cooler as i think its bigger than the takegawa version.. but definitely need an oil catch can! Hopefully that will arrive this week..
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #111 ·
Seems like our temps are roughly the same.. So i'm glad to hear that. I think if i pushed it to 70 mph, i would be around that 240f mark as well. I'm running the Kitaco 5 row oil cooler as i think its bigger than the takegawa version.. but definitely need an oil catch can! Hopefully that will arrive this week..
The catch can is a necessity with these high revving engines. I'll see a few droplets from the breather filter when really using the revs. The good thing is with the drain back to the oil filler plug(if a Takegawa setup) you don't lose much oil.

When I had the catch can hooked up wrong it would push a lot of oil out of the breather filter and I'd have to watch my oil level carefully.

Now it doesn't ever change in the sight glass even after a few hundred miles of riding.

I've got the second cooler going on when my exhaust is finished.

It has AN/4 fittings and lines instead of AN/3 like my current Takegawa cooler has.

I did have the Kitaco cooler on before doing the 4 valve and it did a great job. I switched for the rock guard and AN/ style screw on fittings from Takegawa. Cleaner look.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #112 ·

She's a runner.

I was debating gearing it one tooth taller for the highway but it will lose any roll on and maybe add load and heat while cruising.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
My kit just came in and have been reading all ur post. Have about 90% of ur setup. Just waiting on having enough time to get it all setup n start having real fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Wondering if the ceramic wheel bearings made a difference? Does anyone know what size the Kitaco oil cooler with catch can size are? Want to change the oil lines to the type the Takegawa oil kit have instead of just the black hose they come with.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #115 ·
Wondering if the ceramic wheel bearings made a difference? Does anyone know what size the Kitaco oil cooler with catch can size are? Want to change the oil lines to the type the Takegawa oil kit have instead of just the black hose they come with.
I'm not sure what difference the bearings make, if any.

The only reason I went for them is that load=heat and anything that can be done to stay cool the better.

Regarding the oil lines, @JesseeS put together some AN/4 fittings to the Kitaco cooler I sold him.

I bought the AN/4 10mm banjo fittings and hose ends online.

I believe he used the Kitaco cooler lines with the AN/4 hose ends. Nice clean setup.

The Kitaco coolers are bigger than the Takegawa coolers. I like the look of my dual set-up though.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #116 ·
Wondering if the ceramic wheel bearings made a difference? Does anyone know what size the Kitaco oil cooler with catch can size are? Want to change the oil lines to the type the Takegawa oil kit have instead of just the black hose they come with.
Kitaco uses 10mm banjo with AN/4 sized fittings.

These can make a clean setup with the nylon braid hoses in the Kitaco kit.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Thanks for the info. The oil cover I got is the Takegawa oil cover. Just need to figure what I need to connect the Kitaco oil cooler to the Takegawa oil cover. I have a red monkey oneky n going for the red,grey,chrome style. I also got the Takegawa lower front fender. Thanks to ur build I have gotten alot of helpful info u have provided. N ur video's on utube also help. Ur Monkey is looking awesome. Keep up the great work n any info u can provide is helpful to many. I have the Yoshimura RS-3 exhaust I hope I can make work with my build. N the Dynojet PV3 with the exhaust sensor. I should of got the Aracer before. I jumped the gun before I I knew anything. But guess now I'm invested n hope I can it work somehow. I live to far to get it tuned anywhere. But will cross that bridge when I get my Takegawa 181cc Superhead 5 axis bored kit installed with the 5 speed n 15/15 cam n ported intake with Takegawa camshaft n Takegawa injector V2.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Monkey and others
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter · #118 ·
Thanks for the info. The oil cover I got is the Takegawa oil cover. Just need to figure what I need to connect the Kitaco oil cooler to the Takegawa oil cover. I have a red monkey oneky n going for the red,grey,chrome style. I also got the Takegawa lower front fender. Thanks to ur build I have gotten alot of helpful info u have provided. N ur video's on utube also help. Ur Monkey is looking awesome. Keep up the great work n any info u can provide is helpful to many. I have the Yoshimura RS-3 exhaust I hope I can make work with my build. N the Dynojet PV3 with the exhaust sensor. I should of got the Aracer before. I jumped the gun before I I knew anything. But guess now I'm invested n hope I can it work somehow. I live to far to get it tuned anywhere. But will cross that bridge when I get my Takegawa 181cc Superhead 5 axis bored kit installed with the 5 speed n 15/15 cam n ported intake with Takegawa camshaft n Takegawa injector V2.
I used the Kitaco cooler on my Takegawa clutch cover. Bolts right up!

I never did get the info I was looking for for the PV3 with auto tune.

Another member used it before going to the ARacer and he dialed his in good. The ARacer allows higher redline and more tuneability. That is why I switched.

I'll check my PM's and tag him.

Make sure you get a catch can on there. Definitely needed for these high revvers and big bored.
 

·
Registered
2018 Honda Monkey
Joined
·
155 Posts
I'm still using the pv3 on my 4v and I won't be changing it to any other ecu. Its working well, makes plenty of power and doesn't run too hot. Not sure if @Monkey181cc has seen my build thread, but it's a taky 4v that's had a lot of extra work done to the head.

Yes, the pv3 is hard to learn, but you can make it work for the takegawa 4v. Feel free to PM me if you need a hand or want one of my old maps.

I haven't posted in a while because I just got married and haven't had time for much besides work and wedding planning.

Sent from my Atom_XL using Tapatalk
 
101 - 120 of 187 Posts
Top