Honda Grom banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #1

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
A dry kit that provides approximately 40-50% more air mass (over stock est. 9 hp) at it's lowest jetting and no fueling added? Sounds like a GREAAAAT idea...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
Wow......that seems really cool, although I confess that I do not have the technical knowledge to fully evaluate the pros and cons.

One question: how long does that nitrous bottle last?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
706 Posts
A dry kit that provides approximately 40-50% more air mass (over stock est. 9 hp) at it's lowest jetting and no fueling added? Sounds like a GREAAAAT idea...
The description does say that it changes the fueling, but it's also very very vague and sounds more like a sales line...

"...we can fool the bikes EFI system into adding the little extra fuel you need to make some sweet power!"

Still, its pretty cool. But not something I'd ever dare to do to my poor Grom's engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,032 Posts
Only up to a 6 hp gain. And for short bursts. After all the bottle has to be smallish. Maybe on top of a BBK, but not in place of it. YMMV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
A dry kit that provides approximately 40-50% more air mass (over stock est. 9 hp) at it's lowest jetting and no fueling added? Sounds like a GREAAAAT idea...
Cant help but take this as scarcasm lol... You dont have to agree with it, just provide input on why one shouldnt or how one can make do-able properly.

Wow......that seems really cool, although I confess that I do not have the technical knowledge to fully evaluate the pros and cons.

One question: how long does that nitrous bottle last?
No idea??? one of the reasons Im posting hopefully someone will give a little more insight Good or Bad...

The description does say that it changes the fueling, but it's also very very vague and sounds more like a sales line...

"...we can fool the bikes EFI system into adding the little extra fuel you need to make some sweet power!"

Still, its pretty cool. But not something I'd ever dare to do to my poor Grom's engine.
Im sure its just as simple as emailing them to get Honset answers too,,, exactly why im asking you guys
Not sure if I would do to my grom either but my buddy has goals, will definitely let him do it first if anything :haha::haha::haha:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Only up to a 6 hp gain. And for short bursts. After all the bottle has to be smallish. Maybe on top of a BBK, but not in place of it. YMMV
Wut up WV,,, :headbang:

Not a bbk or in place of, staying stockbore with supporting mods... But is this ok with stock crank?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
One of the biggest issues with dry shots of nitrous, is the lean condition caused by it. If this was a properly tuned wet shot, it would be a million times safer. I would worry that the stock ECU and/or injector wouldn't be able to keep up with the rapid demand for fuel. Remember, nitrous is a chemical supercharger... it only speeds up the process. And as others have stated, on a bike where different handlebars make a measurable difference in weight and drag, adding a small bottle will pretty much be your only realistic option.

Turbocharging a single cylinder 4 stroke is very difficult considering how exhaust pulses are what spins the turbine. Having one pulse per every two whole revolutions is going to be a challenge to keep the turbo moving. The only ones I know of that work well with turbos are the guys doing the Raptor 700 builds. Which I would imagine is because of the sheer displacement being able to keep the turbine spinning. This is even difficult to achieve on a 450, or so I'm told. Now on top of that, you have to figure out oil feed and return plumbing, exhaust and intercooler piping, how you will tune (really need something that can utilize a MAP sensor to read boost), including another handful of issues I can't think of at this point in the day.

Cliff notes: both turbo and NOS on a Grom are more of a conversation piece than a practical way of adding power to a Grom... IMHO.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Unless you know what you're doing playing with nitrous is gambling with your engine with bad odds. If you don't know what you're doing you're probably going to blow it up. It would be fun while it lasted though! :laughing6:

You should at least get the nitrous kit from a reputable place. I'm not saying Dyno Tune isn't a reputable place, but I've never heard of them and the website looks like it was made in Mom's basement overnight.

Do your research on the company and on nitrous before you buy!

I know a guy that had nitrous in his 5.0 fox body Mustang. It caught on fire and the nitrous bottle turned into a bomb. There wasn't much left of the rear of that Mustang. Blew the sum' bitch to pieces! Another guy that had a beautiful '65 Mustang with nitrous. He didn't know what he was doing and it over revved the engine and blew it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
I second what 50-50 said. You had better know what you are doing if you mess with NOS. Many kits have a switch that keeps the NOS from activating unless you are at WOT so that the fuel mappings can be set correctly. I have seen people bypass that switch or use a setup that does not have one and then run their engine so lean that they burn it up in seconds. Keeping the fuel pressure up to match the NOS is not always easy, from what I understand. I tried to put a 100 shot on my Mustang years ago, but I couldn't find a company that I trusted, and I had no experience to do it myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
how you will tune (really need something that can utilize a MAP sensor to read boost), including another handful of issues I can't think of at this point in the day.

Cliff notes: both turbo and NOS on a Grom are more of a conversation piece than a practical way of adding power to a Grom... IMHO
Phhhilllyyy,,, thank you for the feedback homii, will def let him know what your saying about wet system.

The boost IDK??? Seems like alot of shit involved, me personally wouldnt do it. I dont think my buddy realizing whats needed, this video is what got him motivated...

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Unless you know what you're doing playing with nitrous is gambling with your engine with bad odds. If you don't know what you're doing you're probably going to blow it up. It would be fun while it lasted though! :laughing6:

You should at least get the nitrous kit from a reputable place. I'm not saying Dyno Tune isn't a reputable place, but I've never heard of them and the website looks like it was made in Mom's basement overnight.

Do your research on the company and on nitrous before you buy!
I second what 50-50 said. You had better know what you are doing if you mess with NOS. Many kits have a switch that keeps the NOS from activating unless you are at WOT so that the fuel mappings can be set correctly. I have seen people bypass that switch or use a setup that does not have one and then run their engine so lean that they burn it up in seconds.
Agree with both of you fellas,,, I dont know shit about NOS much less throwing it on a grom so attention to detail will be a must. Again not my dream its a buddy of mine coming from the car seen, he runs MEEK car club here in Pensacola so he has some people around him that are familiar just not on a grom.

Appreiciate the feedback guys, keep it coming...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
Cliff notes: both turbo and NOS on a Grom are more of a conversation piece than a practical way of adding power to a Grom... IMHO.
I missed this during the read through and caught it in a quote. I agree 100% with this statement. Small bore, single cylinder engines are probably the worst candidates for nitrous and boost. He'd be much better off going with a big bore kit, a ZS190 swap, or even a CBR 250/300 swap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
He'd be much better off going with a big bore kit, a ZS190 swap, or even a CBR 250/300 swap.
He wants to stay stock bore... This isnt about hooking up nos to run wot every minute of the ride, He is set out out do something you Shouldnt or most wouldnt Consider...

With that said,,, this is Not something that Cant be done,,, it can be done,,, it just isnt justifiable by most,,, BUT thats not their problem lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
He wants to stay stock bore... This isnt about hooking up nos to run wot every minute of the ride, He is set out out do something you Shouldnt or most wouldnt Consider...

With that said,,, this is Not something that Cant be done,,, it can be done,,, it just isnt justifiable by most,,, BUT thats not their problem lol
Ah that makes more sense. Good thing Grom top ends are dirt cheap. As long as he doesn't throw the rod through the case it's not a huge deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Cant help but take this as sarcasm lol... You don't have to agree with it, just provide input on why one shouldn't or how one can make do-able properly.
It was light-hearted sarcasm, the problem with a dry kit is that it doesn't add fuel to accommodate the increase in air mass, thereby resulting in a lean-out.

You need a wet kit (good luck plumbing that mess on a Grom), a piggyback to add fuel, or a full standalone that has input for a nitrous switch (to enrich the mixture).

By passing the cool nitrous charge past the Air Temperature sensor in the intake track, we can fool the bikes EFI system into adding the little extra fuel you need to make some sweet power!


The oxygen mass content of Nitrous Oxide is 36% vs. 23.6% in regular air. Your cylinder has a specific volumetric efficiency at a given RPM/TPS so you aren't adding N2O to the charge but rather displacing the free air content. You ALSO are not replacing the entire free air in the charge, either. Point being, you need account for this extra oxygen by fueling properly. 5% might be a good estimate, but it's just a guess without testing/logging.

The Grom has an IAT center value of 98.258 deg F. Cool the charge down to 41.939 deg F and you'll add approximately 5% fuel based on IAT fuel comp. Now... IAT sensors are fast, but they are not instant - they are still thermostatic and take time to adjust. My gut feeling tells me that nearly freezing the IAT with the N2O injection will not eliminate the lean out as the ECU will not see the cold IAT before the lean-out condition is already in the past.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The oxygen mass content of Nitrous Oxide is 36% vs. 23.6% in regular air. Your cylinder has a specific volumetric efficiency at a given RPM/TPS so you aren't adding N2O to the charge but rather displacing the free air content. You ALSO are not replacing the entire free air in the charge, either. Point being, you need account for this extra oxygen by fueling properly. 5% might be a good estimate, but it's just a guess without testing/logging.

The Grom has an IAT center value of 98.258 deg F. Cool the charge down to 41.939 deg F and you'll add approximately 5% fuel based on IAT fuel comp. Now... IAT sensors are fast, but they are not instant - they are still thermostatic and take time to adjust. My gut feeling tells me that nearly freezing the IAT with the N2O injection will not eliminate the lean out as the ECU will not see the cold IAT before the lean-out condition is already in the past.
Mr. Saturn thank you sir... If he actually insist on doing this I will definitley keep this post updated, as he hits roadblocks maybe as a collective effort we can get him thru them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I talked to a guy who has the land speed record for 125cc motorcycles out at El Mirage and he said NOS was tricky with small bikes because it's hard to regulate it. You apparently get bits of nitrous that don't atomize and it doesn't matter at 25 or 50 horsepower but at single digits it will make it run like shit.

Also, I've done nitrous a few times and have a blanket policy to never use a dry system, unless the ECU is specifically programmed to add more fuel when the nitrous is flowing. Relying on the open loop correction is a common cause for failure and it's why nitrous has such a bad rap.

That said, if your friend wants to give it a shot and can afford a replacement motor, more power to him. Let us know how it goes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
I tried to read the Facebook post (I don't regularly use Facebook, so maybe I did something wrong), but all I saw were some brief comments about "spraying the head." What does "spraying the head" even mean-- is that tech-speak for injecting nitrous?
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top