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Discussion Starter #1
Put a few hundred km on the new setup (dhm stage2, stock valve head) and overall its a night and day difference compared to how the bike used to run! I love how it pulls right up to redline, but the powerband of this TB cam is about 2k rpm higher than I would like it to be. Ideally I'd like to restore some of my bottom end torque, and here lies the challenge!

I dont have a consistent source for premium 91oct fuel in my area, so the stage3 dhm kit isn't really much of an option. So I thought why not go up to a 143 e-stage takegawa? Well after speaking with David at dhm he was sure that his stage2 tune and tb cam would not be a proper suit for the 143 kit..

So do I move on from the dhm stage2 and just by the takegawa 143 e-stage kit? Or should I just buy the 143 piston/jug and then buy a programmer? I'd rather use what I already have if thats possible, but I understand that I can't have it all! All I really want is a touch more mid range torque.
 

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More TQ then step up to at least 160cc and I recommend staying 2 valve as it has more TQ
 

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Talk to CJR, he did some tunes for the 143. He may even have that self tuning version that will work. I'd sell the stg 2 ecu and buy a used stock core to be reflashed.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I'm more inclined to go with the 143 due to cost and not having to run an oil cooler. I live and ride on gravel roads and don't think that an oil cooler would last very long. Plus the e-stage is running 11.0:1, so it will be a little more forgiving of me periodically mixing octane booster in it than 13.2:1.. i just sold a wrr with a 290 athena BBK for that same reason, it just ran like shit if it didn't have 91 with booster in it, which really limited where I could ride it..


89605


In this dyno graph, the 143cc really takes the dip out of the torque curve when compared to the cam alone. Torque thats comparable to stock but keeps on pulling past 6k rpm, this is what im after.

I'll definitely be getting in touch with Mr. Jones if thats what it takes, thanks!
 

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What gearing are you running? You can use sprocket changes to effectively multiply torque, at possibly the expense of some top speed. Gearing changes are not that expensive or hard to do.
 

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I suggest 14/36, it really makes the bike fun, and if your limiter is 10k rpm you can still get up to 69-70 mph.
 
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My opinion, take it or leave it at the door. Ive built everything. do not waste your time with a 143 bbk. Jump to a Koso 170 which is proven a beast. Im not sure if david has a flash for it but i would invest in a full aracer over any terrible piggyback system. TB cam with a 170bbk really, really makes the grom shine.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Can i run the koso 170 without an oil cooler? I'd love to run the biggest bore possible, so long as I can run it off 87 without burning a hole in it and don't need an oil cooler.

36T on order! Thanks for the suggestions!!
 

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I believe you definitely need an oil cooler with 170. I'm borderline on my 125cc.... I just don't want the weight/complexity. I may change my mind when summer gets here though.
 

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Can i run the koso 170 without an oil cooler? I'd love to run the biggest bore possible, so long as I can run it off 87 without burning a hole in it and don't need an oil cooler.

36T on order! Thanks for the suggestions!!
I'd be all over an oil cooler with any bigger bore kits. More power equals more heat. Plus you'll need an oil catch can to capture oil pushing out of the crankcase breather hose plus vents added to intake tappet cover or cam cover. Preferably one that allows the oil to drop back into the engine.

A lot goes into the bigger bore engines to get them to run properly and you will be maintaining more so than stock bore/lightly modded engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where's Tooter? LOL..... Longer intake should give more torque, he swears by it.
I've considered this after reading through tooters build thread. Not sure if I wanna do away with my stock airbox though... I wonder if there would be a trade off by going to a longer intake though? Mainly, will the tb cam be abke to breath properly in the higher rpm? Based on tooters findings and knowing the history of these motors, maybe there's something to be said for maximizing torque over horsepower
 

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I use my Grom for utility transportation so I want good low rpm torque. So I installed an extra long intake and long uniform diameter exhaust. My Grom pulls nicely from 3,000. :)

TB kill off low rpm torque to get high rpm performance, so I don't run one.

89683


89682
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I love your bike tooter! I'd definitely grab a toce exhaust if they weren't soo far out of my price range, maybe some day after I'm done building my house...

So I'm ready to pull the pin on the 143cc takegawa piston and jug from webike as well as order an efie, cylinder head temp gauge and the takegawa 4th bearing. Plan right now is to run it in conjunction with the stage2 dhm reflash and the tb cam and see how it works out. If it goes lean, I'll run the efie to see if it helps. If it simply runs like a turd, I'll ditch the cam and reflashed ecu and go back to running my stock ecu/cam (which seems to work for others).

If anyone wants to talk me off this ledge I'd appreciate the criticism! But the way I'm seeing it is its not much of a gamble if the 143 jug/piston doesn't work out. I already have the necessary corresponding mods, so $200 for a jug and piston isn't going to put me in the poor house if it doesn't work out
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
So for shits and giggles I put my stock exhaust back on tonight, and wouldn't you know it, that piece of crap Amazon exhaust was killing my torque! It definitely doesn't pull as hard over 8k now, but below 5k is where the difference is most noticeable. The power curve feels a lot more linear now without that "2stroke like" hit around 7k rpm. Was able to hit 124kmh indicated, but was only able to go out for less than 20km, so overall I'm very happy with the change!

I think I'm going to experiment with this cheap header for now and see what I can get out of it. But I think in the long run i'll have to bite the bullet and buy a name brand exhaust that has been tested and proven.

Like they say, a shortcut is the greatest distance between two points!

Dhm reflash and Ti retainers
TB cam
"Ported" stock valve head
32mm hose from airbox to TB
2 UNI filters in the stock filter and 2 on the airbox near the snorkel
14/34
 
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