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Have you sent any of this to Wayne for his response? I have 2 of them and some delrin lower wheels that need modification to run and have toyed with adding the ball bearing lower in place of the koso and using the delrin lowers.
 

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Have you sent any of this to Wayne for his response? I have 2 of them and some delrin lower wheels that need modification to run and have toyed with adding the ball bearing lower in place of the koso and using the delrin lowers.
Did not contact the manufacturer.

Not looking for excuses or blame.

just reporting my findings
 

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I do speculate that this issue may be limited to a purely manual cam chain tensioner setup. Stock system may keep better preload on the chain under normal use, and prevent slapping of the chain against the wheel causing that deformation.

On the other hand, the whole point of the manual cam chain tensioner is to have a precise and consistent tension. If the wheel wears and causes slack, and associated slapping, the manual tensioner is actually worse.

Hope someone with a stock tensioner tries these wheels and reports findings with pics.

The above speculation may also explain why Honda put rubber wheels in for guide wheels, and not metal wheels with teeth. May be a better choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Dropped the oil after another few hundred miles and found metal shavings on the magnetic plug, again. Less than before, but more than I like to see.

Pulled the stator cover off to inspect the guide wheels.

The lower wheel shows significant and unacceptable wear.

Not the best pic but you can see how the chain cut into the base of the guide wheel teeth and caused deformation. Running a flat blade screwdriver head along the deformation I could feel the metal deformation confirming what I saw.

I had to tighten up the manual cam tensioner rod to take up the slack that the wear on the wheel has caused.

Will run it for a few hundred more miles then will check gain. If wear has progressed, the unit is coming out.


View attachment 92923
Nasty... Stock cam chain? My chain was so stretched when I got the bike with 7k on it, that the stock arm had rotated enough that the tensioner end hit the gear right behind it. Was on the track during practice and heard something weird, ended up not racing that day out of fear of a catastrophe. Turned out my fear was on point! New chain and changed nothing else & the back of the arm was clear of the gear by nearly 1/4 inch.
 

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Nasty... Stock cam chain? My chain was so stretched when I got the bike with 7k on it, that the stock arm had rotated enough that the tensioner end hit the gear right behind it. Was on the track during practice and heard something weird, ended up not racing that day out of fear of a catastrophe. Turned out my fear was on point! New chain and changed nothing else & the back of the arm was clear of the gear by nearly 1/4 inch.
Nasty indeed. Wheel is way too soft a metal.

Upgraded chain, DID heavy duty chain, 3K miles on it, that went on with the koso neo build. Same size links, but better chain.

Inspect your guide wheels and post some pics please!
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I do speculate that this issue may be limited to a purely manual cam chain tensioner setup. Stock system may keep better preload on the chain under normal use, and prevent slapping of the chain against the wheel causing that deformation.

On the other hand, the whole point of the manual cam chain tensioner is to have a precise and consistent tension. If the wheel wears and causes slack, and associated slapping, the manual tensioner is actually worse.

Hope someone with a stock tensioner tries these wheels and reports findings with pics.

The above speculation may also explain why Honda put rubber wheels in for guide wheels, and not metal wheels with teeth. May be a better choice.
Interesting..... I have a different manual CCT that still uses the factory spring. Hoping this keeps me safer, but will definitely be taking the cover off after a few hundred miles to inspect the wheels and magnet drain plug.

I have seen reports from the people that tested these on the GF FB page, and they have shown no discernable wear after many thousands of miles on BBK's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Nasty indeed. Wheel is way too soft a metal.

Upgraded chain, DID heavy duty chain, 3K miles on it, that went on with the koso neo build. Same size links, but better chain.

Inspect your guide wheels and post some pics please!
Just put mine on last weekend, and had to wait for a new cover gasket before 1st ride. Actually rode to work for the 1st time since install today. Could have sworn I opened the spinner last time I had the cover off messing with clutch springs, but apparently I did not...... The Takegawa oil spinner was caked with rubber mush from the stock guide wheel that disintegrated! Glad it didn't blow up!!!! I pulled and opened the oil pump, looked clean in there thank gawd.
 

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Just put mine on last weekend, and had to wait for a new cover gasket before 1st ride. Actually rode to work for the 1st time since install today. Could have sworn I opened the spinner last time I had the cover off messing with clutch springs, but apparently I did not...... The Takegawa oil spinner was caked with rubber mush from the stock guide wheel that disintegrated! Glad it didn't blow up!!!! I pulled and opened the oil pump, looked clean in there thank gawd.
I also pulled the clutch side cover to inspect the screen for debris. It was very clean. I also changed the paper oil filter (Kitaco cover), and that also seemed clean.

Benefits of running a magnetic plug are definite. Caught all the metal debris.
 

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Have you sent any of this to Wayne for his response? I have 2 of them and some delrin lower wheels that need modification to run and have toyed with adding the ball bearing lower in place of the koso and using the delrin lowers.
FWIW, did not hear back from Wayne yet.

Ordered a new lower cam guide wheel, stock rubber/plastic and will put that in place of the damaged metal wheel.

Will inspect the upper metal wheel more closely once I have the flywheel off to see if I keep that in operation.
 

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Dropped the oil after another few hundred miles and found metal shavings on the magnetic plug, again. Less than before, but more than I like to see.

Pulled the stator cover off to inspect the guide wheels.

The lower wheel shows significant and unacceptable wear.

Not the best pic but you can see how the chain cut into the base of the guide wheel teeth and caused deformation. Running a flat blade screwdriver head along the deformation I could feel the metal deformation confirming what I saw.

I had to tighten up the manual cam tensioner rod to take up the slack that the wear on the wheel has caused.

Will run it for a few hundred more miles then will check gain. If wear has progressed, the unit is coming out.


View attachment 92924
You have entirely too much tension on your timing chain. I've been running Wayne's stuff longer than most, and do not have any wear.
 

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You have entirely too much tension on your timing chain. I've been running Wayne's stuff longer than most, and do not have any wear.
But I don't.

Set the tension on the timing chain with only finger tight pressure on the rod, then confirmed the tension by checking deflection of the chain with the stator side cover off and the cam sprocket cover off. Not too tight at all. If anything, it is on the loose side.

Same tension I ran with the stock rubber rollers and those shed a bit of material over time but did not disintegrate. Check my pictures and chain tension setting recommendations here:

 

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You have entirely too much tension on your timing chain. I've been running Wayne's stuff longer than most, and do not have any wear.
The Takegawa and oem wheels in the picture have 3K miles on them, using the same manual tensioner, tension set up the same way, riding the same way, and show almost no wear.



Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive fuel system Automotive lighting Automotive design
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I also pulled the clutch side cover to inspect the screen for debris. It was very clean. I also changed the paper oil filter (Kitaco cover), and that also seemed clean.

Benefits of running a magnetic plug are definite. Caught all the metal debris.
This is what I found in mine! YUK!!!! This was before ever running the speedshop stuff, so bits of stock guide wheel and a metal sliver I'd say from the arm rubbing on the chain..

Wood Gas Wire Metal Electric blue
 

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Pard, are those dents in your exhaust from when your 186 BBK blew out the bottom of the case?

That is encouraging to see that your Takegawa tensioner wheel and stock lower wheel still looked good after 3000 miles. That’s what I’m running. It seems like a quality piece.
 
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