does the computer numbers match up between the 2? that might have dif programming, dont know

 

I have no clue. Isn’t the ecm the computer? CJR could probably fix that

 

Waste of a tune

 

I didn’t understand the question in the 2nd post At first. Yes the ecm are different. That makes sense IMO. The dash on the Grom has more info displayed.

 

Could a simple cam change to an oem Grom cam and CJR ecm tune bump the monkey up to the Grom specs?

If I was going to perform a cam swap like you're suggesting, I would throw a TB cam in there like most people do, or perhaps a Koso cam if you don't want all your power in the very top end.

 

I did a Tb cam. It wasn’t that impressive. Low end torque didn’t exist. No I’m not interested in throwing money into cams. My stock Grom has acceptable performance and I am just wondering if the monkey de tune can be reversed to match the Grom. Anyone know?

 

The lower horsepower rating on the Monkey could be an symptom of more torque. Monkeys are more dirt oriented just as Groms are more road oriented.

Has anyone baseline dynoed their bikes? That would be the only way to know for sure. I'd take low rpm torque over high rpm horsepower any day.

 

No Idea on the detune reversal deoodles, but I lost 10 pounds, feel great and the bike seems a little faster too. 😎

 

Lol. Agree. Thanks for the advice

 

I don't understand the question. In your first post, you ask if you can use the stock Grom cam on the Monkey and tune it. Of course. Then in another post you say, "No I’m not interested in throwing money into cams." I'm not sure what the Grom cam costs, but a TB cam is inexpensive and will yield more power. I run a TB cam with a CJR tune and did not lose low end torque. You're leaving a lot of power on the table by choosing a Grom cam since the stock parts intentionally cripple the motors output for emissions' sake.

If you are pretty happy with the bike as-is, I would just have your ECU flashed and leave the rest of the bike alone.

 

What would the benefit be of having the ECU flashed and not changing any parts please?.

 

A new OEM Grom cam is $32. The TB cam I have in my bins ran me $75 and sux it lowers performance in the rpm band I ride and makes a racket. I’m sure if I wanted to ride around at 8k plus rpms the Tb is better but still louder and I don’t ride there, mostly I’m between 5 and 7k. Any other aftermarket cam is going to be twice the Tb cam and without trying it and hearing it first I’m not willing to go there. My Grom out performs my monkey. I just want to try de tuning the monkey to match the Grom performance using Honda parts nothing more. Any tuners know?

 

If the ecu numbers between the grom and monkey, I would try it, or see if you can get a factory grom ecu somewhere and swap the ecu

 

If you want more power from the Monkey, get the parts to tune it and be done. Talking about stock for stock versus a Grom is kind of pointless, IMO.

Both bike have different exhausts, intakes, ECU tuning and maybe the cams as well.

 

I asked a legitimate question. If you don’t know that’s fine you don’t need to post to the thread if your not going to add value.

 

The point is you are investing time and possibly money chasing half a horsepower.

What for?

Are you just verifying that there is a different cam profile?

Throw the Trail 125 in the mix too because it is most different in tuning with a longer exhaust and longer intake tubing and tuning for lower rpm peak torque.

 

I’m convinced it’s got to be the cam there could be slight differences in the ecm tune like advance but they aren’t that far apart and the cam could lessen the spread. Going that route first then a possible reflash Both bikes top out close to 60 so it isn’t overall performance that needs the tweak just how the monkey gets there.

 

The half horse I’m chasing isn’t an aftermarket mod. If I wanted that I could install an aftermarket intake and exhaust and be done. But that would ruin the riding experience for me. Louder isn’t better. I’m sticking with Honda parts and it isn’t to increase top speed it’s for my own riding enjoyment. Appreciate your concern for my time and wallet Good point I should check the trail 125 specs first.
The monkey is a very comfortable ride. The Grom does it better. Why not try to tweak the Monkey. We all have something that keeps us busy and costs us coin. It’s called a hobby

 

You may be able to get a Grom take-off cam from somebody cheap.

The stock Monkey exhaust is still grossly different than the Grom. It has much longer tubing with the loop underneath the motor.

.5hp wouldn't be a big or noticeable difference, IMO.

Although I hated the excess noise and it would have benefitted from a tune, the MNNTHBX intake added nice grunt/response everywhere but it would get warm and drop the HP by way of the ECU and oil temp sensor.

Not sure what you are looking to spend on the quest for the HP but a 14t sprocket and Speedo DRD for speedometer correction are inexpensive and will give you response.

Add in clutch cover with oil spinner delete and then you will greatly improve the speed at which your engine changes rpm and it feels less lawnmower and more motorcycle.

You also get an easy to change cartridge oil filter.

 

Good info. I already went 36t on the rear. Same as 14t up front. I’m using the DRD now and kept the Takegawa SP tach and temp gauge. I had an intake the chimera. Removed it and sold it after 50 miles. I do think the cover may benefit it. I also think the Grom cam and remove the decompression should help. Those are both on the list. I have to be cautious about changes that could affect what it is I like about the bike. I also ran a self tune closed loop ecm from CJR but sold it with the aftermarket Takegawa SP exhaust that I found too loud. My KOSO air filter came off as well I heard the intake with it. Whatever I can get from it has to be with the stock intake and exhaust. The money spent on my original mods was well spent. I learned what I don’t want.

 

Ok. I remember now.

I agree with you regarding noise.

Something you may consider doing is getting a big bore kit such as the 143cc from Takegawa and installing with the stock running gear. If you didn't change intake or exhaust it didn't require tuning. Don't quote me on that but I believe that is what I read.

Stock intake and exhaust, stock tuning.

If you have a tuneable ECU it may make minor corrections but limiting factors are stock exhaust, intake, and porting.

Takegawa used to sell a lower compression version of their 143 and 181 for regular unleaded fuel.

 

I just ordered the kitaco clutch cover. That is my first step. Removing the spinner may change how it performs idk but it makes sense in my mind and should have no negative effects. The decompression device spinning on the cam gets noisy at 4 to 5k. I want to remove it no matter what cam I end up with. Anyone know if that’s a problem???

 

If you change the cam it will change the sound characteristics. Hopefully not enough to be bothersome.

Removing the decompression mechanism may cause extra load on the starter motor. You can get around that with a bump in battery capacity, lithium based battery. Or go to a Heavy Duty Starter.

I'd try without any changes first. If it catches and doesn't start you can tap the starter button again and it should fire up.

Honestly could not tell you if the decompression device makes noise or not.

If you switch cams I'd highly recommend not using the TB cam. Everybody gravitates to it because of cost and high rpm hp. If you are not doing the "loud" mods it will be a dog!

Something like the Kitaco Type 1 or Takegawa S type cam to boost power in the whole powerband. Going with the higher end cams makes you have to rev the hell out of the engine to make power plus everything needs to be open to allow them to make more hp.

 

Thanks for the info. I’m pretty sure my Tb cam didn’t have decompression on it and the bike started just fine. I do expect a little high pitched whine from the spinner removal. Nothing annoying

 

High rpm focused cams have more overlap so they don't have as high of combustion pressure at low rpm making them easier to spin over.

I wouldn't consider the TB cam to be apples to apples with those other cams listed regarding combustion chamber pressures needed to be overcome by the starter.

 

I recommend a yoshimura ST-1M cam or the takegawa. I have kept my airbox for a majority of the time on my Grom. My first grom had a BMC filter and amazon exhaust. The takegawa cam came with the 143 kit I bought and it was easy to install that night vs the cyl and piston. I had so much fun with just the filter, cam and fart can. Could hit 68mph.

I bought a spare head to port per Cisco's matchy matchy 27mm port posts, but had an offer on the 143 kit and sold it with the cam. I spun the stock cam up to 10K with the ported head, but it did nothing. I got the Yoshi cam after and it was like the Takegawa but carried the power to redline.

Takegawa awesome kick in the pants down low to 8+K rpm and would taper down after.
Yoshi ST-1M same kick, but carried to redline, granted it probably plateaued around 8500 rpm but didn't feel like it was falling.

 

To answer the question in the original post, yes and no. IF the parts can be direct swapped, I'm sure it would have some effect. Keeping all monkey original parts and just getting a tune would be more beneficial. If you like the way the monkey rides and are honest to God wanting .5 horsepower more, don't wear a backpack when you ride or take a nice dump pre ride. There is zero chance in this reality you would be able to notice a half of a horsepower. If you want to mod the bike please do, we all love it, but do it for the right reasons. As far as removing the spinner, yes it's going to change the characteristics. You will more than likely find it feels like the bike has lost a little "grunt" on the bottom but the bike will spin up quicker.

 

As far as removing the spinner, yes it's going to change the characteristics. You will more than likely find it feels like the bike has lost a little "grunt" on the bottom but the bike will spin up quicker.

That’s exactly what happened. The grunt lost wasn't a big deal; only noticed in first from a stop and really not that much. The spin up quicker was most noticeable above 5k It would go to 7k a little faster. That helped keep the speed up when in 4th on inclines but overall speed is unchanged. Engine noise was also unchanged. This is a move in the right direction. Its an expensive mod but the very slight improvement in how the motor responds and no spinner to clean make it a good choice.

 

Interesting. The cover is installed I haven’t taken it out yet. But, did go down the street. I didn’t notice any less grunt. I am running 15/36 and that may be why. 1 mod at a time. I don’t see any downside to the cover and no more spinner to clean. After a few rides I will know if it stays on or comes back off. It’s the first mod I’ve done where it seems like an actual improvement other than the gear swap.

 

I'm planning to do the cover next, mainly because I like a filter, and feel like taking the spinner off will help the big bore work less. Keep us updated

 

I’m running the stock exhaust and it has no issues with the Kitaco cover. I don’t think you have to remove the cover in the future I use a small vacuum and a straw on the end when I change my oil you can actually just suck the screen clean from the oil drain bolt hole small vacuum light suction. I did not change out the oil pump I understand why folks would want to but I would rather have a Honda quality part especially when the engine is stock

 

The tip of my straw is cut at a 45 and the sharp edges removed honestly I don’t think after 600 1000 miles that that screen is going to do much The motor is pretty clean by that point especially if you’re changing your oil. I did verify that the debris that screen catches is on the bottom of the screen

 

I did buy a GoldPlug magnetic drain plug so that should help I would think.
What color case did you go with?