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Discussion Starter #1
So I have a stock 2015 Grom with PV3+ WBCX. I have been riding and logging and viewing the logs for the stock bike. I’ve also opened tune files for mildly modded up to bbk to see what is being done vs stk. I’ve read over the PCSS help guide and “ Basic overview of closed loop fuel control on the Honda Grom” documents. My plan is to do performance mods as my budget allows and HOPEFULLY adjust for them myself rather than just loading the closest “tune file”. I feel like learning the tuning part would be fun as well. Anyway, after buying the PV3 and WBCX it will be a little while before I can buy intake and exhaust and I’m itching to change something and see what it does lol. I’m a little gun shy though so I’m asking for feedback. After reading the “closed loop/open loop” document that someone was gracious enough to write up and post, I want to change my OL/CL switch point (lower TP threshold for OL) and use the tune lab feature to target 12.5 AFR for the OL area. Does the sound like a good idea? Is there anything I’m not thinking of that would make this a bad idea? Lol
Also:
1. Do you have to “reset” the ECU after you load a different tune?
2. Does the ECU need time to learn after a new tune is loaded?
 

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The Ecu reset's anytime you flash a tune, yes it will need time to adjust and learn after flash.

If you dont have any mods currently? Setting your afr to 12.5 is super rich.... Its going to run Horrible

Maybe try afr 14.3 thru 13.7, bump timing a little in certain rpm ranges (depending on your riding style)

Timing moves at a min value of 00.36 (3 x 00.36 = 1.08 degrees of timing x 2 = 2.16 degrees)

If your using stock map move your timing 2 degrees at first. If your liking that, then 1 degree at a time until you find your sweet spot.

Be mindful not to go crazy with timing, advancing timing also creates more HEAT!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the response!

So yes I do not have any mods to the bike yet. After the PV3-WBCX I will have to chill on buying stuff for now. The tuning part is very intriguing to me so it seemed like a logical 1st step. Eventually I would like to end up with a BBK of some sort.

I see now for the AFR. Because I have the WBCX I know that the bike already runs 13.5~ ish in OL stock. So there is nothing to be gained with fuel in that area? So really the only opportunities are to make areas of CL now to OL and target 13.5 AFR?

Lol I haven’t even thought of timing so this is good. Do you have a suggestion for a “do not exceed “ limit I should not go to ?. Have you experienced spark knock? (FYI-I run premium but with the possibility that 87 is in the hose and the tank is a gallon....)

Thanks for the feedback ??
 

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Same boat... Except I want to tune a (not a Grom) with the Hoedar. Trying to learn fundamentals of tuning first. Do you have links to the docs referenced above?
 

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Thanks for the response!

Lol I haven’t even thought of timing so this is good. Do you have a suggestion for a “do not exceed “ limit I should not go to ?. Have you experienced spark knock? (FYI-I run premium but with the possibility that 87 is in the hose and the tank is a gallon....)
Spark Knock... Every build is different I have high comp piston, max timing for this piston is +5 degrees at High Rpm Wot... have mine set to +4 in various rpm ranges. I also have three different ways to monitor temps though.

All DJ tune files for pv3 are +2 degrees across the whole rpm, this is universally safe...

Power Commander5 maps depending on which map you use, timing at 100% wot can be as high as +6 degrees, Using stock piston intake and exhaust.

Do baby steps you will be fine, the one thing that sucks is everytime you make changes to your pv3 map you have to reflash and go thru the Ecu learning process all over again.

So give yourself some miles with each change / reflash
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So.... I did do the OL thing and logged some riding. While this did nothing for performance i can see the affect of the change I made ??

Here is the LTFT at zero above the threshold. And a picture of the AFRs.

So I learned that in OL it runs 13.5~ and at the top of the TP at 12. Next I want to use the “Tune lab” to adjust to 13.5 all the way up.

I somehow messed up the TP scale though. I hit “auto scale axis’s ” and now the TP and RPM scale are super fine. I try the “Sync with C3” but it has no affect. I’m going to try and manually type the values back in based on what C3 is.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So will the “Tune Lab” adjust the fueling in areas of the map that no logged AFR is present?

Just curious but I’ll be able to see when I run it (tune lab).
 

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1. Do you have to “reset” the ECU after you load a different tune?
Yes, but this is automatically done on reflash.

2. Does the ECU need time to learn after a new tune is loaded?
Only if you have long term fuel trim enabled. Most PV3 tunes disable long-term.

I would stick to 2 deg advanced on a stock bike with 4 deg in the upper RPM/WOT range if you run premium fuel. Without a knock sensor, you are solely tuning by the seat of your pants. You can address temperatures easily, but detecting knock is going to be more difficult.

So will the “Tune Lab” adjust the fueling in areas of the map that no logged AFR is present?

Just curious but I’ll be able to see when I run it (tune lab).
No - the script will only touch fueling cells where log data is present. Unfortunately, even a single logged data point will change fueling, so review changes before accepting, then smooth after.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Am I doing something wrong? I hit auto scale grid and now TP and RPM are scaled different than the INJ PW table in C3.
1. Does wp8 and C3 need to match to use the WB tune lab function?
2. How do I get it back easily? Seems like I’m not doing something right. I closed the programs and reopened. No luck...
 

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So this is what the tune lab came up with. I set OL/CL to 34.941 TP. I set CL to 14.7 and the OL to 13. I loaded these corrections to the bike and I’m going to go ride/log to see how it did.
Click convert to percent. It's a hell of a lot easier to see if anything looks way off.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So the more I look I can see the LTFT values in the logs. Sometimes areas have zeros but then other logs have values. I’ve selected several of the last logs and used the Tune Lab. I also set the OL target AFR to 13.5

The last pic is what it came up with. Do the values remain in BOLD from now on? After I did “save as” they are still bold.
 

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