[lepa]

I almost forgot this thread. Something reminded me of these clones and tried the old youtube to see whats going on. Not much but I did find this vid:

So they really have landed. Thoughts? Im not really sure about this "queen garden" thingy. I think its not a skyteam but something else.

 

[a_morti]

This thread seems to be going a bit out of the trail with this harley talking. Anyway I found a little bit more info on this copybike:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=180455868635248&story_fbid=769389209741908

Dont understand France nor do I have facebook account but as I understand its coming to Europe quite soon becouse its allready priced to 1699e for the 50cc and 1999e for the 125cc version. It doesnt look bad at all to me.

Couple of pictures more here. This is a skyteam vendor but the bike isnt Skyteam. I think it is Queen Garden or something like that. Never heard. Kinda.. girlish name anyways

SKYTEAM EUROPE - QUEENGARDEN - The biggest stock in Europe - Le plus grand stock en Europe - De grootste voorraad in Europa

At 2000€ it's not enough cheaper than eg. the 3150€ OTD that Honda charge in Germany to get my interest even a little bit going.

 

[a_morti]

I stand my ground, the Grom is a toy/monkey/pitbike and it would be better if I had 3x of them to blast around instead of 1x honda. And from that looks ill have 3x sets of rims, 3x sets of forks, 3x sets of gas tanks, 3x sets of frames etc for the price of 1x grom, 3x sets of wiring, 3x sets of controls etc, if the motor blows up, ill put a honda motor in it, the suspension is crap on the OEM honda anyways.

You're talking nonsense.

It makes fk all difference if you are mechanically inclined, you can't fix these bikes to a decent standard. It's just not possible to do and even if it were it's not worth your time.

We aren't just talking about poorly assembled or setup parts here. We are talking about poor quality bearings which give out with no warning. Porous crankcase castings so you could have engine oil leaking out through the actual metal. Poor castings of wheels so when the bearings break you can't get the new bearing to stay put, chains made of cheap soft steel that won't last 1000 miles and can fail catastrophically in use. Tyres even worse than Vee Rubber. Brake and fork seals made of incorrectly blended rubber which get degraded super quick by brake or fork fluid and then are unusual sizes which don't exist as spares through the non-existent dealer network. Carbs which are made of soft alloy where the needle will very quickly wear its quide, leading to a bike which cannot be tuned to run properly under any circumstance without replacing the carb. Spark plugs made of poor ceramic which snap under normal use. These stories about China clones come up on every non model-specific bike forum I use, and nowadays the only advice given out is trash it and buy a JP bike instead.

Those 3 of everything you have will be used up as spares in a few thousand miles, which you'll spend most of off the road. When they're all gone, you'll have 3 bikes which don't run right, and we'll have one grom that's still worth most of the money which was paid for it. Then you say you'll happily pay the money to fit a Honda engine which you could have had in the first place. Uh huh.

In the bicycle world there is a thing called a "BSO". It's a Bicycle Shaped Object, a thing which looks like a bicycle but clearly isn't one because it doesn't work like a bicycle. I consider these clones to be in the same category, a MSO if you will.

Phrases which apply:
you can't polish a turd
buy cheap buy twice
you get what you pay for
Refer to a famous theory of one of my favourite literary characters, and swap "boots" for "motorcycles".

A really good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars. Therefore over a period of ten years, he might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. And he would still have wet feet.

you do know for 3-4k you can pickup a really nice yamaha fz1, sport touring litrebike, better throttle response, better suspension, better weight capacity, better fuel injection, better at pretty much EVERYTHING compared to a grom, oh and not to mention its freeway legal in all states and can go way faster then 60mph.

so again why are you thinking the grom is such a great deal around 3-4k? I dont and the reason i have one was to teach my gf how to ride, and like i said before if they had these chinese knockoffs in some showroom here in the states i woulda had 3x of them for the price of 1x grom.

How many brand new FZ1's can you buy for $3-4k? And will they get over 100mpg and fit in really tiny parking spaces?

I could just as well say why buy a brand new small car when you could just as well get a 1975 Cadillac for the same money.

Even so I would admit there are much better value and more practical 125cc motorcycles out there such as Honda's very own CBF125. There are faster 125's available such as the CBR125. But none of them are a Grom. If you don't want one, don't buy one... but don't kid yourself thinking you get 3 times as much by buying a Chinese knockoff at a third of the price. In the end after even 2 years, you spent the same and you will still have wet feet.

 

[lepa]

At 2000€ it's not enough cheaper than eg. the 3150€ OTD that Honda charge in Germany to get my interest even a little bit going.

The THINGS is that Honda doesnt make 50cc grom/msx so thats not an option in this case.

And comparing to z-bike/monkey, not all clones are bad. For example some might say that the overall ride in skyteam monkey is better than in original one. Disc brakes, better front end, electric start and slightly larger frame. I mean original is always original but you got to see this more objective.

 

[a_morti]

The THINGS is that Honda doesnt make 50cc grom/msx so thats not an option in this case.

And comparing to z-bike/monkey, not all clones are bad. For example some might say that the overall ride in skyteam monkey is better than in original one. Disc brakes, better front end, electric start and slightly larger frame. I mean original is always original but you got to see this more objective.

Fair point considering you are only interested in a 50cc.

Also it's rare for the technology of the copy to be better but I do see that with Monkey clones. Consider though, that the Grom clones are going back to carbs, which is unlikely to get through in countries with emissions requirements.

I still would never do it due to the terrible reputation, backup and residuals of a Chinabike, but anyway I am interested in your opinion as someone who has tried the Chinabikes. What's the pricepoint where it becomes economical to buy a clone; 50% of the price of an original? 70%?

 

[lepa]

Fair point considering you are only interested in a 50cc.

Also it's rare for the technology of the copy to be better but I do see that with Monkey clones. Consider though, that the Grom clones are going back to carbs, which is unlikely to get through in countries with emissions requirements.

I still would never do it due to the terrible reputation, backup and residuals of a Chinabike, but anyway I am interested in your opinion as someone who has tried the Chinabikes. What's the pricepoint where it becomes economical to buy a clone; 50% of the price of an original? 70%?

Ive never owned a china rip-off my self but now it seems that Im forced to give it a thought becouse Honda isnt providing msx with 50cc motor. Carb is also better for tuning. Besides Id probably end up throwing in a 160cc engine so it really woudlnt be a problem. I dont concider these groms even real japanse bikes. After all theyre pretty much thaihondas.

 

[a_morti]

Ive never owned a china rip-off my self but now it seems that Im forced to give it a thought becouse Honda isnt providing msx with 50cc motor. Carb is also better for tuning. Besides Id probably end up throwing in a 160cc engine so it really woudlnt be a problem. I dont concider these groms even real japanse bikes. After all theyre pretty much thaihondas.

You'd buy a 50 as it's all you are permitted, but you'd put a 160 in it anyway... what's then when the cops see you doing 110-120km/h, they won't believe it has 50cc any more.

ThaiHonda is about right. They're better built than Chinese bikes but also (very) obviously built to a price.

 

[lepa]

You'd buy a 50 as it's all you are permitted, but you'd put a 160 in it anyway... what's then when the cops see you doing 110-120km/h, they won't believe it has 50cc any more.

ThaiHonda is about right. They're better built than Chinese bikes but also (very) obviously built to a price.

So Im thinkin that mayby, just mayby the difference in quality isnt so huge as we believe. I mean skyteam managed to build a decent monkey clone so why wouldnt they be able to make the same with grom? All and all the starting point isnt state of the art technology with carbon fiber this and titanium that. We'll just have to see. The video that I posted isnt actually skyteam according to northern europe importer. He sais that skyteam is going to produce one but its not ready yet. I dont know whats going on with this queen garden thingie.

And hey... tuning these is the best thing to do

 

[a_morti]

So Im thinkin that mayby, just mayby the difference in quality isnt so huge as we believe. I mean skyteam managed to build a decent monkey clone so why wouldnt they be able to make the same with grom? All and all the starting point isnt state of the art technology with carbon fiber this and titanium that. We'll just have to see. The video that I posted isnt actually skyteam according to northern europe importer. He sais that skyteam is going to produce one but its not ready yet. I dont know whats going on with this queen garden thingie.

And hey... tuning these is the best thing to do

Because the Monkey comes from the 70's, there's a lot of space to improve upon it with more modern tech.

The Grom already has Fi , disc brakes , etc.

You inspired me to make a new thread... let's see how the Grom is holding up worldwide.

 

[Dude6710]

I really wish the grom was 230cc

 

[Vi5a]

I really wish the grom was 130000cc. Really?

 

[Dude6710]

I really wish the grom was 130000cc. Really?

K....

 

[SAC]

Wanting a bigger engine isn't ridiculous, this is a street legal bike, it should be fast enough to be SAFE on the street. Bottom line, it isn't without serious engine work. Dude6710 and I live in MN, if you can't go 75 up a hill here, you aren't fast enough to be safe. If I want to ride the Grom to work I have to take an extra half hour and ride on bicycle/pedestrian paths.

 

[Dude6710]

Wanting a bigger engine isn't ridiculous, this is a street legal bike, it should be fast enough to be SAFE on the street. Bottom line, it isn't without serious engine work. Dude6710 and I live in MN, if you can't go 75 up a hill here, you aren't fast enough to be safe. If I want to ride the Grom to work I have to take an extra half hour and ride on bicycle/pedestrian paths.

Exactly. People don't know how bad drivers are here. It's Minnesota nice till you get in a vehicle. I drive semi around the cities and see some worthless people behind a steering wheel all day.

 

[Vi5a]

I had no idea that going faster was safer.

 

[Dude6710]

I had no idea that going faster was safer.

K....

 

[lepa]

Here are some more pictures:

Le Motrac Urban | Mini4Temps.fr, le site des passionnés de Mini4Temps Honda et répliques.

 

[lepa]

Well we are talking about clones here and this one is also fitted with monkey-type engine so mayby not so off topic:

Model is AGM Strada 50cc and they do sell them in Europe allready. Price is about 2500 euros. This is sort of a KTM Duke clone aint it?

AGM launched another new vechile in their line-up. Its a retro stylish bike, also fitted with monkey-type engine. AGM Caferacer 50.

AGM Caferacer NEW!! | Antiloop

Pretty interesting thingy. Kinda hard to tell the size couse I dont even know the tire size but Im guessing something like and old cbr 125? Mayby bit smaller.

 

[David]

Seems they now offer a trail / supermoto kind of version.

Nieuw : URBAN 50- 125 cc M5 | De Bondt

 

[Wasabi Chan]

China made engines are crap, skyteam clone Grom is overpriced. Spent a day with a skyteam dealer and you'll know. But hey what do u expect for that price?