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No way it’s lighter with an extra gear and additional emissions BS.

Along with overreaching and insane emissions standards, the stupid EU also requires ABS. I’m betting you won’t be able to toggle it off.

Good eyes for the guys that spotted the oil filter!
You could always run stainless lines directly from the master to the calipers and plug the abs unit. Common practice on track bikes that come with standard ABS. If that causes a warning light to stay lit that will require some ECU work.
 

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The bike is definitely heavier per the specs on Honda's European website. The 2021 is listed at 103kg whereas the 2015 is listed at 101.7kg which is roughly a 3 pound weight difference.

My biggest head scratcher at the moment is that they also changed bore and stroke.

2015 European Specs: https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/media/pressreleases/42689/2015-honda-msx1254

2021 European Specs: https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/312151/2021-honda-msx125-grom


You could always run stainless lines directly from the master to the calipers and plug the abs unit. Common practice on track bikes that come with standard ABS. If that causes a warning light to stay lit that will require some ECU work.
 

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Yeah, don’t Grom SFs with ABS weigh about 234 pounds, or 5 pounds more than the non-ABS model, which is 229 pounds? If ABS is standard on the 2021, then that is about 5 extra pounds from the get go.

Having no oil spinner removes about 2.5 pounds though. The bodywork could be lighter. Maybe the wheels are lighter too.

I wonder what the exhaust weighs? The SF exhaust is about 10.68 pounds! My aftermarket exhaust weighs 3.66 pounds.
 

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I'm not sure how I feel about the new look yet but a 5 speed transmission and oil filter is something I can be onboard with! I'm always reaching for the non-existent 5 gear on my 2018.
 

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Yeah, don’t Grom SFs with ABS weigh about 234 pounds, or 5 pounds more than the non-ABS model, which is 229 pounds? If ABS is standard on the 2021, then that is about 5 extra pounds from the get go.

Having no oil spinner removes about 2.5 pounds though. The bodywork could be lighter. Maybe the wheels are lighter too.

I wonder what the exhaust weighs? The SF exhaust is about 10.68 pounds! My aftermarket exhaust weighs 3.66 pounds.
Yes, the SF is 229 lbs without ABS and 234 lbs with ABS according to this: 2019 Honda Grom Specifications
 

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I won't be rushing out and selling my Monkey but a five speed would really help close up the holes in the gearbox ratios. The replaceable oil filter is awesome, too. I think we have a winner here.
 

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New motor is 50x63.1 bore/stroke. It'll be interesting to see if the cases are new or based on the crf110 (50mm bore) or updated from the SF Grom.

If the new crank fits in the current cases or the new motor has the same stud pattern as current, a 181 becomes a 197 and a 186 becomes a 203.

If the stud pattern is smaller, as per the 110 cases, then the big bore options are a lot more limited.

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So if the crank fits the current case, then maybe a 125 could become something bigger? You would need to make sure the rod does not make contact with the cylinder skirt or the piston.

Swap the crank and throw in a Takegawa 5-speed transmission while you are in there. Just dreaming.

I’m not sure if I would be motivated to buy one of these or not. There are things I love about the SF Grom too. I can always add a 5-speed to my SF. Maybe own both? 😁 See which one you end up liking more? My 2018 only has 1800 miles. If the 2021 made about 15 hp stock it would be an easy decision. I think it is a neat evolution of the Grom, but I’m not sure there is any reason for me to change bikes anytime soon. The fun factor would be about the exact same.
 
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So if the crank fits the current case, then maybe a 125 could become something bigger?
After looking some more, I think the new moto may be related to the 2019+ fuel injected crf110 motor, and not related to the OG/SF grom motor. That would mean max bore sizes of 56mm which gives a capacity of 155cc with the new stroke. Look at these comparison shots of the stator covers of the 21 grom and the 20 crf110. I could be wrong, but we'll have to wait and see.

88574


88575
 

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It looks like the gear shift pedal is direct now and the chain adjusters are different as well. I wonder if the headlight is better and if the new front turn signals have running lights too. Pic i saw with headlight on had no running lamps on. Can't wait to see the reviews when they arrive.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I like the bigger tank, 5 speeds, new dash and headlight, I hope it's all backwards compatible on the sf ^^. Especially the tank.
Curious how the new seat feels also

I'm curious if they will have enterily new better looking body kits sets available at some point
Or what aftermarket brands will propose for that. The stock ones give me a "toy bike" feeling ^^
 

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I don't think the gear shift pedal is direct, it still looks like it is on the rear set and it seems there is the same little arm going on the shaft. Looks, well it's personal, I like it better than the SF but less than the OG.
The tank is 9% bigger which is not a huge difference.
The head is definitely different as well and the starter motor is bolted on three points, like the one on the CRF110 and those bolts bolt to to center case if I'm correct so mongerrr might be right about the closer spacing of the studs and max ccs.
As for the spinner delete I'm not sure it's a good thing. Yes you won't have to clean it but you still have to open the case to access the strainer. And I'm curious about the rotational masses, I can imagine that there is mass added on other parts to compensate the heavy spinner delete. And that mass might be more difficult to remove.
I'm curious about the Monkey, will it get the same engine?
 

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After looking some more, I think the new moto may be related to the 2019+ fuel injected crf110 motor, and not related to the OG/SF grom motor. That would mean max bore sizes of 56mm which gives a capacity of 155cc with the new stroke. Look at these comparison shots of the stator covers of the 21 grom and the 20 crf110. I could be wrong, but we'll have to wait and see.
Interesting thought. Seeing what Cameron Jones is doing with the CRF110 I'd be all about that motor change!


It looks like the gear shift pedal is direct now and the chain adjusters are different as well. I wonder if the headlight is better and if the new front turn signals have running lights too. Pic i saw with headlight on had no running lamps on. Can't wait to see the reviews when they arrive.
That would be a stupid change on a street bike IMO.

I don't think the gear shift pedal is direct, it still looks like it is on the rear set and it seems there is the same little arm going on the shaft. Looks, well it's personal, I like it better than the SF but less than the OG.
The tank is 9% bigger which is not a huge difference.
The head is definitely different as well and the starter motor is bolted on three points, like the one on the CRF110 and those bolts bolt to to center case if I'm correct so mongerrr might be right about the closer spacing of the studs and max ccs.
As for the spinner delete I'm not sure it's a good thing. Yes you won't have to clean it but you still have to open the case to access the strainer. And I'm curious about the rotational masses, I can imagine that there is mass added on other parts to compensate the heavy spinner delete. And that mass might be more difficult to remove.
I'm curious about the Monkey, will it get the same engine?
Are you sure you'd need to open the side case to clean a strainer? It has what looks like access to a cartridge filter without removing the side cover.
 

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It looks like to me the shifter is a linkage design like the previous generations.

I’ve never personally missed my oil spinner or it’s rotational mass. After the motor is broken in, there will probably be very little in the strainer, until the cam chain tensioner self destructs...lol. As most of you know, with the Kitaco clutch cover, removal of the two bolts only allows access to the filter. The strainer screen still requires removal of the clutch cover.

The chain adjusters are definitely different. That would be great if the headlight was better. I would welcome a little more light. I wouldn’t be surprised if the larger tank will not fit the OG or SF, but of course I could be wrong. We will know eventually.

You would think the Monkey and Super Cub will also be using this motor in the future, but the just released Trail 125 says it has a bore and stroke of 52.4 x 57.3, so I’m not sure.

After looking some more, I think the new moto may be related to the 2019+ fuel injected crf110 motor, and not related to the OG/SF grom motor. That would mean max bore sizes of 56mm which gives a capacity of 155cc with the new stroke. Look at these comparison shots of the stator covers of the 21 grom and the 20 crf110. I could be wrong, but we'll have to wait and see.
If you are correct (and if I’m understanding you correctly), with a maximum bore size of 56mm, this thing will not be well received by the big bore crowd. Between that and the standard ABS, sounds like another good reason to keep my SF.

More than once in my lifetime, I’ve purchased the new model of a product so I could have the latest/greatest version, only to later figure out that I much preferred the previous generation.

The 2021 is a great looking bike with some nice new features, it will be interesting to hear everyone’s thoughts after they start tearing into it.

This thread has become a bit screwed up since it was merged with another thread. It no longer displays proper view count or who recently posted to it. Ninelives17, can you use your Super Moderator powers to fix it? lol...
 

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It looks like to me the shifter is a linkage design like the previous generations.

I’ve never personally missed my oil spinner or it’s rotational mass. After the motor is broken in, there will probably be very little in the strainer, until the cam chain tensioner self destructs...lol. As most of you know, with the Kitaco clutch cover, removal of the two bolts only allows access to the filter. The strainer screen still requires removal of the clutch cover.

The chain adjusters are definitely different. That would be great if the headlight was better. I would welcome a little more light. I wouldn’t be surprised if the larger tank will not fit the OG or SF, but of course I could be wrong. We will know eventually.

You would think the Monkey and Super Cub will also be using this motor in the future, but the just released Trail 125 says it is has a bore and stroke of 52.4 x 57.3, so I’m not sure.


If you are correct (and if I’m understanding you correctly), with a maximum bore size of 56mm, then this thing will not be well received by the big bore crowd. Between that and the standard ABS, sounds like another good reason to keep my SF.

More than once in my lifetime, I’ve purchased the new model of a product so I could have the latest/greatest version, only to later figure out that I much preferred the previous generation.

The 2021 is a great looking bike with some nice new features, it will be interesting to hear everyone’s thoughts after they start tearing in it.
If I'm correct and it's got the crf110 stud spacing, it'll be max 56mm bore without case boring and 58mm if case bored. That gives 155cc and 167cc respectively. The other bad news is that it would not be compatible with the neo and 4v Grom heads.

If the crf110 is anything to go by, it's still a 3 bolt motor, so the og/SF/monkey motor will still bolt up. The monkey and trail 125 motors are already euro5 compliant, so I can see them staying with the current motor. I'd guess that the new Grom motor is euro6 ready with minimal changes and Honda is selling it as euro5 for now because they can get better power out it.

Start hoarding your old motors....

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This thread has become a bit screwed up since it was merged with another thread. It no longer displays proper view count or who recently posted to it. Ninelives17, can you use your Super Moderator powers to fix it? lol...
I would love to help, but the post and counts still show up correctly for me, even if it has been a little scattered. The other thread titled "2021 grom" still exist, they have not been merged yet. One is in grom talk, the other grom news. My one action as a new moderator, I was able to remove and ban a spammer. Something I am very grateful to be able to do! I plan on doing my best to keep everyone else from seeing it at all.
 
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I would love to help, but the post and counts still show up correctly for me, even if it has been a little scattered. The other thread titled "2021 grom" still exist, they have not been merged yet. One is in grom talk, the other grom news. My one action as a new moderator, I was able to remove and ban a spammer. Something I am very grateful to be able to do! I plan on doing my best to keep everyone else from seeing it at all.
No big deal. I’m sure you will be a fantastic moderator.

From the Grom Talk page, I don’t see: number of posts, views, and who posted last.

After you post, it won’t move the thread to the top of the list. Even after refreshing the page.

It looked like to me that Rebeuh and Cheburashka had separate threads that someone merged. I was viewing a thread that I believe Cheburashka started, then all the sudden there were all these other posts inserted.
 

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Ah, I see now, when you click on his thread, It now opens the 2021 grom thread.

It was indeed merged by one of the other mods.
 
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I'm thinking of the tuning potential of a 61.9mm crankshaft stroke. I have a cheap 60.9mm long stroke crank which I fear is made of cheese, so to have a OEM one would be nice. The new OEM clutch cover and 5 speed would be nice too. These parts would be £1000+ here as aftermarket parts, so I'm hoping I can import OEM parts soon from the Far East for peanuts. If the RRP of a new Grom stays the same as the current model it might be quite a good buy. Currently its over priced in the 125cc market for everyone apart from enthusiasts like us.
 
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