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50HP Electric Conversion - Project Electrom

This is a discussion on 50HP Electric Conversion - Project Electrom within the Grom Builds forums, part of the Honda Grom Forums category; So quit because it's not perfect now? Is that what we should be doing? With that attitude applied to all human progress we'd still be ...

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Thread: 50HP Electric Conversion - Project Electrom

  1. #21
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    So quit because it's not perfect now? Is that what we should be doing?

    With that attitude applied to all human progress we'd still be in the Stone age.

    Literally every advancement in tech and quality of life started with failure and people like you saying it's a horrible idea.


    Bar none the most viable solution is nuclear. The research is coming along very well, the world just needs to pull its head out of its ass

    Nuclear generation would have no problem at all powering the world in a much much cleaner and sustainable manner than current strategies
    Last edited by Wibbly; 06-25-2019 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbly View Post
    So quit because it's not perfect now? Is that what we should be doing?

    With that attitude applied to all human progress we'd still be in the Stone age.

    Literally every advancement in tech and quality of life started with failure and people like you saying it's a horrible idea.


    Bar none the most viable solution is nuclear. The research is coming along very well, the world just needs to pull its head out of its ass

    Nuclear generation would have no problem at all powering the world in a much much cleaner and sustainable manner than current strategies
    You have to stop putting words in my mouth if you want to have a discussion. I never said give up on electric. I said it's currently not viable in every situation nor is it a magical fix without substantial side effects. I stand by that 100%. Plus, rushing into the switch to electric, as many politicians are trying to force us to do, isn't the right way to approach it in my opinion. We don't even know that we can support the power demands. It should be a slow and methodical transition while still searching for better solutions. Electric is NOT sustainable as we know it currently. Eventually resources will eventually be used up or pollution will have taken over.

    Nuclear is about as clean as a cancer lab. Sure, nuclear is a clean fuel, but the spent rods are extremely dangerous to every living thing on this planet. Until we figure out how to neutralize spent rods we should not be building more nuke plants. Nobody wants spent rods near them and for good reason.

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    At least they're not in the atmosphere or waterways


    Nuclear has a ton of potential.


    Electric transmission has come a long way as well, with the potential for a few massive localized plants it's entirely feasible to move massive amounts of power. (500kv DC lines).

    So long as we keep lighting fossil fuels on fire we are going backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbly View Post
    At least they're not in the atmosphere or waterways


    Nuclear has a ton of potential.


    Electric transmission has come a long way as well, with the potential for a few massive localized plants it's entirely feasible to move massive amounts of power. (500kv DC lines).

    So long as we keep lighting fossil fuels on fire we are going backwards.
    Depending on the handling of spent rods they certainly can get into the water table which would be devastating. I think nuclear has tons of potential, but we gotta figure out what to do with the waste and/or how to neutralize it.

    Electric vehicles are keeping us on fossil fuels as it stands. That's what I say electric is a stopgap or Band-Aid.

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    Electricity isn't going to become obsolete. Burning gasoline will be. They already have failsafe nuclear reactors. And there is a massive amount of money being spent on fusion tech. That's the end game. I'd rather have fission reactors than coal fired plants. Atmospheric pollution is a way more important matter at this moment than spent fuel storage. Per mwh produced nuclear is by far the safest.


    Maybe right this second electric isn't perfect. But neither were the first planes or rockets. Electric generation is the next critical step and it is happening now. I'd rather be early to the party than late.

    My next car will be fully electric, for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50-50 View Post
    I looked this up and here's what I found.

    "These trucks had a 3.5 HP electric motor that was powered by many batteries to produce 66 to 80 volts and a maximum of 40 amps. The driving range of these trucks was about 50 miles and the maximum speed was 10 to 12 MPH."

    That's not a truck. That's a scooter that happens to haul things.
    Actually by definition it is a truck. And apparently it was a great truck for its intended purpose. Technically the cart that I push to set out breakfast at the hotel I work at is also a truck, but hell we'll stick to motor powered vehicles here.

    Most of what you're saying is changing as we speak. For example (and once again this is iirc) the batteries in the tesla cars just really don't seem to die much. Rather, it takes them a very long time to do so. So much so, that you're much more likely to need a new car before you'll need a new battery. There's a 2013 telsa model S being used as a Taxi cab, and its still on the original battery and the car has something like 423k miles on it. Most people don't know how to take care of a motor vehicle well enough to have it last 5 years, let alone 10 or 20. Then they blame the manufacturer for their errors and premature wear and tear.

    But back to batteries, Samsung is finishing up on development of the graphene battery that lasts roughly 10x longer than anything we've got now. Graphene is essentially just graphite and isn't a pollutant like lithium. Scale that up for a car battery and now you can go something like 1k miles per charge instead of 200. If you really dig into it, the old rule book is being tossed out the window. My point was that if they'd just spent the last hundred years developing batteries, we'd have probably had good reliable electric vehicles for 40 or 50 years now. And even then, I'll take less pollution from charging up batteries, vs more pollution from using fossil fuels directly. Obviously its not a fix, but if you're going to have to pick, you'll take the smaller tumor as opposed to the bigger tumor.

    Even the batteries we've got now don't have to pollute when they're disposed of. It is possible to recycle them in a way that doesn't. It may be expensive, but it can be done. Tell all them electric car drivers its the cost of getting to drive that electric car. If your car goes to the junkyard when you get rid of it, or if you need to swap out batteries, you get to pay the recycling cost.



    We will definitely see 99% of the cars on the road, being electric in our lifetime. GM has said that soon they're going to be going all electric. Ford is building an electric F150. Vw has said they'll be totally electric by 2025. The ic engine is going the way of the dinosaur and personally I'm glad to see it go. Don't get me wrong I've always loved my 94 GT mustang and my 87 silverado. But I'm getting over it. I'm tired of replacing fuel pumps and water pumps and heater cores and power steering pumps, changing oil, etc etc etc, on into infinity. Its time for it to die.
    Last edited by bennylava; 06-25-2019 at 11:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennylava View Post
    Actually by definition it is a truck. And apparently it was a great truck for its intended purpose. Technically the cart that I push to set out breakfast at the hotel I work at is also a truck, but hell we'll stick to motor powered vehicles here.

    Most of what you're saying is changing as we speak. For example (and once again this is iirc) the batteries in the tesla cars just really don't seem to die much. Rather, it takes them a very long time to do so. So much so, that you're much more likely to need a new car before you'll need a new battery. There's a 2013 telsa model S being used as a Taxi cab, and its still on the original battery and the car has something like 423k miles on it. Most people don't know how to take care of a motor vehicle well enough to have it last 5 years, let alone 10 or 20. Then they blame the manufacturer for their errors and premature wear and tear.

    But back to batteries, Samsung is finishing up on development of the graphene battery that lasts roughly 10x longer than anything we've got now. Graphene is essentially just graphite and isn't a pollutant like lithium. Scale that up for a car battery and now you can go something like 1k miles per charge instead of 200. If you really dig into it, the old rule book is being tossed out the window. My point was that if they'd just spent the last hundred years developing batteries, we'd have probably had good reliable electric vehicles for 40 or 50 years now. And even then, I'll take less pollution from charging up batteries, vs more pollution from using fossil fuels directly. Obviously its not a fix, but if you're going to have to pick, you'll take the smaller tumor as opposed to the bigger tumor.

    Even the batteries we've got now don't have to pollute when they're disposed of. It is possible to recycle them in a way that doesn't. It may be expensive, but it can be done. Tell all them electric car drivers its the cost of getting to drive that electric car. If your car goes to the junkyard when you get rid of it, or if you need to swap out batteries, you get to pay the recycling cost.



    We will definitely see 99% of the cars on the road, being electric in our lifetime. GM has said that soon they're going to be going all electric. Ford is building an electric F150. Vw has said they'll be totally electric by 2025. The ic engine is going the way of the dinosaur and personally I'm glad to see it go. Don't get me wrong I've always loved my 94 GT mustang and my 87 silverado. But I'm getting over it. I'm tired of replacing fuel pumps and water pumps and heater cores and power steering pumps, changing oil, etc etc etc, on into infinity. Its time for it to die.
    I meant the performance was liken to a modern scooter. But that was a long time ago so it is impressive it was viable for them.

    If you're talking about the Tesloop Tesla that car has 400,000 miles the battery was already replaced twice. There are cars and trucks out there that last that long without an engine replacement. It may not be common, but let's compare outliers to outliers. Diesels get even more mileage.

    We may be able to recycle batteries cleanly, but it's very expensive. And at the end of the day profits always win over eco-friendliness so you know how that goes.

    You really think GM is going all electric in 6 years? I don't buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50-50 View Post
    I meant the performance was liken to a modern scooter. But that was a long time ago so it is impressive it was viable for them.

    If you're talking about the Tesloop Tesla that car has 400,000 miles the battery was already replaced twice. There are cars and trucks out there that last that long without an engine replacement. It may not be common, but let's compare outliers to outliers. Diesels get even more mileage.

    We may be able to recycle batteries cleanly, but it's very expensive. And at the end of the day profits always win over eco-friendliness so you know how that goes.

    You really think GM is going all electric in 6 years? I don't buy it.
    Again I'm not real sure exactly what they called the car, just that it was a Tesla model s, and it had always been a taxi. And the battery had never been replaced, it was still on the original at well over 400k miles. Been a good while since I read about it, I'll see if I can dig it up when I get home from visiting the inlaws. Anyway when it comes to outliers, electrics are just going to last a lot longer than IC cars. The electric vehicle just has a lot less moving parts. Less complexity and more simplicity means longer lasting. But if you mean the battery specifically, I'd say that's something that's only for now. Give them 5 years of development and that won't be true anymore. They're all on a quest now, to out compete, and one up the other companies. One of them will find it and the others will all make knock offs, as per usual. Wouldn't surprise me if they all just rent the Graphene battery patent from samsung and just solve the problem once and for all. And the graphene batteries will probably need to be recycled in some way, but it'll be cheap since they won't pollute. But I'm sure the gub'mint will still make people pay to recycle them.

    GM has said they're going all electric, but hey who really knows. Maybe they're just blowing smoke. But if you take them at their word that they mean what they say, then soon enough we're going to have an all electric GM. They're probably tired of all that unnecessary complexity and look forward to easier electric motor too. The money they could save just on warranty work alone would probably be enough to make them do it. Personally I doubt they'd say it unless they at least wanted to do it, and if they want to, odds are they eventually will even if they don't meet the 6 year deadline. Maybe it turns into an 8 or 10 year deadline. Vw is... well they're VW so I believe them, they'll do it. Another huge automaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennylava View Post
    Again I'm not real sure exactly what they called the car, just that it was a Tesla model s, and it had always been a taxi. And the battery had never been replaced, it was still on the original at well over 400k miles. Been a good while since I read about it, I'll see if I can dig it up when I get home from visiting the inlaws. Anyway when it comes to outliers, electrics are just going to last a lot longer than IC cars. The electric vehicle just has a lot less moving parts. Less complexity and more simplicity means longer lasting. But if you mean the battery specifically, I'd say that's something that's only for now. Give them 5 years of development and that won't be true anymore. They're all on a quest now, to out compete, and one up the other companies. One of them will find it and the others will all make knock offs, as per usual. Wouldn't surprise me if they all just rent the Graphene battery patent from samsung and just solve the problem once and for all. And the graphene batteries will probably need to be recycled in some way, but it'll be cheap since they won't pollute. But I'm sure the gub'mint will still make people pay to recycle them.

    GM has said they're going all electric, but hey who really knows. Maybe they're just blowing smoke. But if you take them at their word that they mean what they say, then soon enough we're going to have an all electric GM. They're probably tired of all that unnecessary complexity and look forward to easier electric motor too. The money they could save just on warranty work alone would probably be enough to make them do it. Personally I doubt they'd say it unless they at least wanted to do it, and if they want to, odds are they eventually will even if they don't meet the 6 year deadline. Maybe it turns into an 8 or 10 year deadline. Vw is... well they're VW so I believe them, they'll do it. Another huge automaker.
    You believe anything VW says after they lied to everybody about their diesel emissions? LOL

    We will see what happens. I'm not holding my breath. That's for sure.


    To the OP - congrats on the electrek feature!

    https://electrek.co/2019/06/28/elect...torcycle-alta/

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