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Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside

This is a discussion on Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside within the Grom Performance forums, part of the Honda Grom Garage category; ...and everybody complained the power commander was too complicated. lol. the interface on this sounds absolutely terrible....

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Thread: Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside

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    ...and everybody complained the power commander was too complicated. lol. the interface on this sounds absolutely terrible.
    A bunch of old stuff that runs. 2stroke grom build...in process.. eventually...

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    Quote Originally Posted by m in sc View Post
    ...and everybody complained the power commander was too complicated. lol. the interface on this sounds absolutely terrible.
    The interface of the PV3 is fine. The interface of the software is fine. But the software is very complicated for those of us that are new to FI tuning. This is the part he's trying to simplify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50-50 View Post
    The interface of the PV3 is fine. The interface of the software is fine. But the software is very complicated for those of us that are new to FI tuning. This is the part he's trying to simplify.

    To me, you just described the PCV. The interface is very simple.

    I am probably one of the few that went backwards from Aracer to PCV. I am also new to FI and could not see what the auto tune was doing on the Aracer. With the PCV, you can see what the trims are and for me, that made it easier to learn and understand what is happening. With the PCV I can also change the target AFR, then let auto tune (WB2) do its thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipr View Post
    To me, you just described the PCV. The interface is very simple.

    I am probably one of the few that went backwards from Aracer to PCV. I am also new to FI and could not see what the auto tune was doing on the Aracer. With the PCV, you can see what the trims are and for me, that made it easier to learn and understand what is happening. With the PCV I can also change the target AFR, then let auto tune (WB2) do its thing.
    And I was thinking of switching to an aRacer because the PV3 does not autotune. The biggest fail of the PV3 is that it doesn't autotune. Every other product from Dynojet seems to have that ability - but not the PV3. Not even if you buy the WBCX module!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50-50 View Post
    The interface of the PV3 is fine. The interface of the software is fine. But the software is very complicated for those of us that are new to FI tuning. This is the part he's trying to simplify.
    but here he says:
    C3 allows you to rescale the breakpoints on X and Y axis, but you can’t add more. The table size is an “ECU thing” not a “C3 thing”. Be mindful of that when you change the X or Y values the table data (Z) does not automatically shift to realign with the previous association to the X or Y values. Hope that made sense? So you you would need to shift or interpolate values to get them aligned properly.


    why the hell does one need to interpolate anything? paying for a premium product, the interface should be a bit more intuitive id think. i mean for fucks sake the original yuminashi/api setup was better to deal with.
    A bunch of old stuff that runs. 2stroke grom build...in process.. eventually...

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    I've mentioned elsewhere on here, but I've got quite a bit of experience in motorsport tuning on MoTeC and Haltech as well as dabbling in more hobby-style software such as AEM, Hondata, MS, AccessPort, etc.

    The Power Vision CX has a few downsides, but the interface is not 'absolutely terrible'. Like all tuning GUI, it just takes a little practice (and a better user manual). The ability to write Python scripting for PV is insanely powerful for professionals. The biggest problems I see with the Power Core tuning interface right now are:

    1. Invisible buttons - to change breakpoints in a table, you literally need to click on very ambiguous areas of the interface.
    2. More invisible buttons - to select data for grid view (X axis, Y axis, and data), you also need to click on very ambiguous parts of the screen.

    All that is needed to fix issues 1 and 2 are to change the buttons from basic 'dark grey text over a light grey background' to something like a boxed-in text with some color. Issue #2 is particularly rough as the grid view is an extremely fast way to make a histogram without the need for Excel and CSV files. This literally would have saved DAYS off my life in tuning on other platforms.

    3. No 'lambda was' feature for quick fueling adjustments and no built-in target AFR table. The latter is more of a limitation of the very simple closed loop target that the Grom OEM ECU uses. This can be fixed with scripting... but it takes some programming knowledge.

    In short, the annoyances with the Power Core software are no worse than having to memorize shortcut keystrokes for most any tuning software on the market. You use the software enough, it will become second nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by m in sc View Post
    but here he says:
    C3 allows you to rescale the breakpoints on X and Y axis, but you can’t add more. The table size is an “ECU thing” not a “C3 thing”. Be mindful of that when you change the X or Y values the table data (Z) does not automatically shift to realign with the previous association to the X or Y values. Hope that made sense? So you you would need to shift or interpolate values to get them aligned properly.


    why the hell does one need to interpolate anything? paying for a premium product, the interface should be a bit more intuitive id think. i mean for fucks sake the original yuminashi/api setup was better to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dubSolo View Post
    BUMPING This... Other Questions have been responded to that were pitched after this one, If the question cant be answered at the moment would be nice just to get a validation response.
    I really don't know at this point. I think they are tied to Global TPS Threshold A, B,C, and D.......but again, I have no practical knowledge of how these are (if they are) functionally tied to index 1,2,3,4 in the o2 transition voltage table X axis.

    Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside-screen-shot-07-17-19-12.45-pm.jpg

    Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside-screen-shot-07-17-19-12.35-pm.jpg
    Last edited by Dyno Dan; 07-17-2019 at 05:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
    I've mentioned elsewhere on here, but I've got quite a bit of experience in motorsport tuning on MoTeC and Haltech as well as dabbling in more hobby-style software such as AEM, Hondata, MS, AccessPort, etc.

    The Power Vision CX has a few downsides, but the interface is not 'absolutely terrible'. Like all tuning GUI, it just takes a little practice (and a better user manual). The ability to write Python scripting for PV is insanely powerful for professionals. The biggest problems I see with the Power Core tuning interface right now are:

    1. Invisible buttons - to change breakpoints in a table, you literally need to click on very ambiguous areas of the interface.
    2. More invisible buttons - to select data for grid view (X axis, Y axis, and data), you also need to click on very ambiguous parts of the screen.

    All that is needed to fix issues 1 and 2 are to change the buttons from basic 'dark grey text over a light grey background' to something like a boxed-in text with some color. Issue #2 is particularly rough as the grid view is an extremely fast way to make a histogram without the need for Excel and CSV files. This literally would have saved DAYS off my life in tuning on other platforms.

    3. No 'lambda was' feature for quick fueling adjustments and no built-in target AFR table. The latter is more of a limitation of the very simple closed loop target that the Grom OEM ECU uses. This can be fixed with scripting... but it takes some programming knowledge.

    In short, the annoyances with the Power Core software are no worse than having to memorize shortcut keystrokes for most any tuning software on the market. You use the software enough, it will become second nature.
    Well said.

    Can I not post screen shots directly to a reply from my PC? Looks like my screenshots didn’t make it in my last post. I’ll try again later when I get my laptop back open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skipr View Post
    To me, you just described the PCV. The interface is very simple.

    I am probably one of the few that went backwards from Aracer to PCV. I am also new to FI and could not see what the auto tune was doing on the Aracer. With the PCV, you can see what the trims are and for me, that made it easier to learn and understand what is happening. With the PCV I can also change the target AFR, then let auto tune (WB2) do its thing.
    Everybody's assessment of PCSS and PV3 is going to be highly subjective. If you have experience with OEM calibration editing using aftermarket tools (EFI Live, SCT Advantage, HP Tuners, Diablo CMR, RomRaider, Tuner Pro, Alientech, etc etc) , you'll find it relatively easy, familiar, and ridiculously cheap. The companies I just mentioned charge thousands of dollars for the calibration editor, data analysis, templates, and other tools simply to edit the calibration, and then you have the hardware cost to boot.

    In general your options in regards to tuning EFI:

    Inline modules — static or limited adjustment
    · Pros — Inexpensive, nothing to tinker with (if you like that)
    · Cons — Nothing to tinker with if you need more control. Limited control depending on the design of the device; ie. input signal manipulation to try and get a change in output controls (EFIE). Typically only altering fuel and / or timing.

    Inline modules — programmable
    · Pros — Better control relative to static inline devices. Typically offer direct output control of fuel and or timing.(Dynojet PC5 or Bazzaz). Allows RTT (real time tuning). May have provision for closed loop fuel control with wideband AFR feedback.
    · Cons — Steeper learning curve if you wish to engage software and start tuning stuff. Limited to fuel and / or timing. Ability to play nice with ECU is sometimes not ideal and leads to “engine management side effects” or requires other widgets to achieve desired results

    Standalone ECU —programmable
    · Pros — Specifically designed as a replacement ECU, thus the calibration control is not “littered” with thousands of lines of code that you’d find in an OEM calibration. Typically have RTT (real time tuning) and may have provision for closed loop fuel control with wideband AFR feedback.
    · Cons — Typically more expensive than other solutions. May not integrate with the OEM vehicle electronics (dash, ABS, transmission, etc etc). If you’re not a tuner, you’ll have to pay a tuner to get your combination dialed in.

    Reflashed OEM ECU / mail-in service / onsite service.
    · Pros = Nothing to tinker with (which some people prefer). Depending on the calibrator and the technology they have access to or have developed, they may have edited advanced calibration items available in the ECU (ie. potentially complete control)
    · Cons = End user has nothing to tinker with (from my perspective) and any changes require you to send the ECU back to "tuner".

    Reflashed ECU Complete Toolset like PCSS and PV3 or stuff mentioned in paragraph above
    · Pros = You're in the driver’s seat. You have more time than any tuner is going to give you to refine your calibration. Depending on the toolset technology you could get access to advanced calibration items available in the ECU (ie. potentially complete control). You’re only limited by your willingness to learn.
    · Cons = Steep learning curve and learning various engine management styles based contingent on the OEM implementation (alpha N, speed density, Mass Air, modeled air flow, torque based electronic throttle control, command based electronic throttle control, neural network). There are lots of “things” in your way to achieve the desired result, so sometimes unraveling them all is quite difficult. Typically takes an investment that runs from $800 - $10k+.

    I’ve used them all, and they all have their place. Deciding what’s best for you is a decision for you to make. That decision is sometimes based on what’s available for a certain vehicle, as the technology I’ve outlined doesn’t exist for each and every vehicle out there.
    Paultergeist likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyno Dan View Post
    C3 allows you to rescale the breakpoints on X and Y axis, but you can’t add more. The table size is an “ECU thing” not a “C3 thing”. Be mindful of that when you change the X or Y values the table data (Z) does not automatically shift to realign with the previous association to the X or Y values. Hope that made sense? So you you would need to shift or interpolate values to get them aligned properly.

    Example. X axis value of 60 in the 8th column, and then at a Y value of 5000, and then has an associated Z value of 2.0ms. Now change the X axis 8th column value to 90....ok, the Z value doesn’t budge and is still 2.0ms, All the while the operating conditions of the engine are completely different.

    Typing from my phone. Sorry I couldn’t get screen shots.
    So if for example you woulf need to raise it from stock file to 10500rpm what would you do? How many steps would you make?
    9500, 9750, 10000, 10250, 10500?
    Or 9500, 10000, 10500rpm?
    Wich line in the stock grid would you erase to be able to fulfill the new ones?
    Would you take it from low rpm grid line or would you use some highrpm grid lines?
    How would you do it to keep the right values in the moved grid lined?
    Changes appear if for example you raise rpm lime in fuel table, does it also automatically change, add the new rpm limit in timing grid table?
    Or you have to change and configure every table in c3 manually? I dont know if you understand what im asking...

    A tutorial on how to modify rpm limit on the fuel tablr would be really helpfull for pv3 users....

    Enviat des del meu LG-H870 usant Tapatalk
    dubSolo likes this.

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