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Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside

This is a discussion on Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside within the Grom Performance forums, part of the Honda Grom Garage category; Originally Posted by 50-50 So your bike runs completely in open loop? Yeah, I shut the feedback fuel master switch off. That way the power ...

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Thread: Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50-50 View Post
    So your bike runs completely in open loop?
    Yeah, I shut the feedback fuel master switch off. That way the power commander V and autotune can target whatever AFR anywhere on the map without the stock ECU fighting it. The guide in this thread doesn't recommend using long term fuel trims anyway if you have a big bore and lots of mods because exhaust reversion screws it up. Closed loop is good for gas mileage if you want to target 14.7 but I have most of the cruising cells at 13.5 and 13.9 at idle.
    50-50 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyno Dan View Post


    In general your options in regards to tuning EFI:

    Inline modules – static or limited adjustment.....

    Inline modules – programmable.....

    Standalone ECU –programmable......

    Reflashed OEM ECU / mail-in service / onsite service.......

    Reflashed ECU Complete Toolset like PCSS and PV3 or stuff mentioned in paragraph above.....
    .......Typically takes an investment that runs from $800 - $10k+........
    Dan, I re-posted a truncated version of your previous post (from page 3 of this thread) because – for one thing – I think you provided a great explanation in that post. I have read through it several times as I try to gain understanding and perspective. I really appreciate you going to the trouble of explaining things in such detail. If it is not too close to hijacking this thread, I would like to ask a couple of questions. (My background: pretty much stock Grom. Keeping it stock bore, but I might like to try getting a little more power with a higher-compression piston and cam).

    1. I almost wonder if your options list could include one more: Non-programmable stand-alone ECU. The one currently on my radar is the Yuminashi. Presumably, the Yuminashi ECU simply reads the OEM O2 sensor and does a decent-enough job at maintaining fuel ratios to be acceptable for a budget Grommer with limited mods. (For some reason, the Yuminashi website states that one also has to use their exhaust with this ECU – this seems inconsistent if their ECU is constantly reading from the OEM O2 sensor).

    2. Regarding you last listed option “Reflashed ECU....like PV3....”. The PV3 for the Grom costs ~ $400 bucks, but you mention a higher range of costs. In my consideration of the PV3 as a possible option for myself, I liked the idea that it seemed really easy to use (assuming I just download / install one of the existing Dynojet maps) and that there didn’t seem to be anything else to buy. Why do you cite the $800 + figure?

    3. The bulk of this thread goes into deep details regarding the PV3 mapping. Most of it leaps over my understanding. I realize, however, that many users are seeking 100% optimization. I would be happy with 90%. Is the PV3 – in your opinion – sufficient to accommodate a lightly-modded engine (piston, cam, maybe head-porting) with a simple download – install — re-flash to the stock ECU?

    I am just trying to look for a fuel-control solution that fits my intended uses and level of technical interest. Thanks for any insights.
    Last edited by Paultergeist; 08-13-2019 at 10:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    Dan, I re-posted a truncated version of your previous post (from page 3 of this thread) because – for one thing – I think you provided a great explanation in that post. I have read through it several times as I try to gain understanding and perspective. I really appreciate you going to the trouble of explaining things in such detail. If it is not too close to hijacking this thread, I would like to ask a couple of questions. (My background: pretty much stock Grom. Keeping it stock bore, but I might like to try getting a little more power with a higher-compression piston and cam).

    1. I almost wonder if your options list could include one more: Non-programmable stand-alone ECU. The one currently on my radar is the Yuminashi. Presumably, the Yuminashi ECU simply reads the OEM O2 sensor and does a decent-enough job at maintaining fuel ratios to be acceptable for a budget Grommer with limited mods. (For some reason, the Yuminashi website states that one also has to use their exhaust with this ECU – this seems inconsistent if their ECU is constantly reading from the OEM O2 sensor).
    This is a black sheep among programmable fuel injection. Very unique and I don't personally consider it a good thing, in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    2. Regarding you last listed option “Reflashed ECU....like PV3....”. The PV3 for the Grom costs ~ $400 bucks, but you mention a higher range of costs. In my consideration of the PV3 as a possible option for myself, I liked the idea that it seemed really easy to use (assuming I just download / install one of the existing Dynojet maps) and that there didn’t seem to be anything else to buy. Why do you cite the $800 + figure?
    The wideband kit adds a lot to the cost. Without the wideband kit, you will be extremely limited in tuning capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    3. The bulk of this thread goes into deep details regarding the PV3 mapping. Most of it leaps over my understanding. I realize, however, that many users are seeking 100% optimization. I would be happy with 90%. Is the PV3 – in your opinion – sufficient to accommodate a lightly-modded engine (piston, cam, maybe head-porting) with a simple download – install — re-flash to the stock ECU?
    This will get you a safely running base map as long as your modifications match one of the available downloads through DynoJet. If this is all you want, I strongly suggest looking for someone locally with a Power Vision kit that you can simply pay for a license and tune. This should run in the $350 range (or maybe even $250 and a case of beer, if it's a friend).

    If you want the tune to be refined at all, you'll need a minimum of an M18 bung in your exhaust for a wideband. Tailpipe sniffers like the Innovate tool don't work well on these bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    2. Regarding you last listed option “Reflashed ECU....like PV3....”. The PV3 for the Grom costs ~ $400 bucks, but you mention a higher range of costs. In my consideration of the PV3 as a possible option for myself, I liked the idea that it seemed really easy to use (assuming I just download / install one of the existing Dynojet maps) and that there didn’t seem to be anything else to buy. Why do you cite the $800 + figure?

    I am just trying to look for a fuel-control solution that fits my intended uses and level of technical interest. Thanks for any insights.
    Paul,
    Regarding your Q2...

    Dan is talking about software to flash the STOCK ECU. No additional add ons like PV3 etc. That software tends to be pricey, and takes a special skill set, and I would imagine a Dyno, at least from my understanding.
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    The guide talks about a Feedback Fuel > O2 Transition Voltage table for setting closed loop target AFR
    I can't find it. Did they get rid of that with the latest update or something? I don't need it, just curious what's up with that though

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    Thank you — Mr. Saturn and Stan — for the kind replies to my questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WV_Grom View Post
    Paul,
    Regarding your Q2...

    Dan is talking about software to flash the STOCK ECU. No additional add ons like PV3 etc. That software tends to be pricey, and takes a special skill set, and I would imagine a Dyno, at least from my understanding.
    Yeah, sorry I was pointing out the fact that $400 gets you a Dynojet PV3, and then the “toolset”, which is PCSS (C3 including templates, WP8 Data, Tune Lab), is free. If you to compare this to other solutions (Alientech, Dimsport, HP Tuners, EFI Live, SCT Advanatage, Diablosport CMR) the investment is $800 to $10k+. And to boot, nobody has a commercially available toolset of this sort for Grom except Dynojet. If you you checked out some of this stuff you’ll see that you can get a device for $400-800, but software costs extra, templates / definitions cost extra, software features like scripting / expressions / tuning aids cost extra.

    I’ve probably got $60k+ wrapped up in this sort of thing (tuning software and hardware), maybe be more. But it’s everything from bike, car, truck, UTV, ATV, snowmobile, etc etc across many different ECU families and manufacturers. Some stuff is old and outdated, other fresh and current. Also, like WV_Grom mentioned, you’re probably going to have a dyno....or realize you need one.

    For most of us it’s the same routine. Get a base tune that’s the closest fit to you mods.....or you can start with stock. Flash, datalog, analyze, edit, repeat. If you don’t want to analyze and edit, find someone who can. Like I said, we all started someone

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    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    The guide talks about a Feedback Fuel > O2 Transition Voltage table for setting closed loop target AFR
    I can't find it. Did they get rid of that with the latest update or something? I don't need it, just curious what's up with that though
    Yes the templates changed a week or so ago. PCSS would have told you there was a new template, you accepted, and then poof the “calibration tree view” was different, things were renamed. I’d have to look to see what that function is now called.

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    Dynojet PV3 and Power Core - Juicy Detail and Help Inside

    Here it is, now called “o2 switchpoint voltage (target lambda)”

    Last edited by Dyno Dan; 08-14-2019 at 07:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyno Dan View Post
    Here it is, now called “o2 switchpoint voltage (target lambda)”

    That's cool. So it looks like you can target 4 different AFRs in closed loop in 4 different rpm ranges.
    50-50 likes this.

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