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My Takegawa 181-4v build started today, tearing down my BrianS 170

This is a discussion on My Takegawa 181-4v build started today, tearing down my BrianS 170 within the Grom Talk forums, part of the Honda Grom Forums category; There's a good reason why that metal tensioner failed and it's very specific to what the owner did. Also with rubber wheels, over time the ...

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Thread: My Takegawa 181-4v build started today, tearing down my BrianS 170

  1. #21
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    There's a good reason why that metal tensioner failed and it's very specific to what the owner did.

    Also with rubber wheels, over time the rubber chips away. It's not a thing you can just change every 500 miles and expect your bike to perform the same.

    Brand new, it will act like a champ. After 100 miles, your bike will run different, so on an so on until the point where there is no more rubber at all and your bike won't even idle or have power.

    How do I know this? from personal experience.

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    Why doesn't someone just make a delrin or acetal slider that utilizes a pivot bearing to replace the wheel? Having a longer contact patch with the cam chain will reduce it's own wear, and when it does wear, it will keep more even contact with the chain resulting in less of a fall off on the chain tension.

    on second thought I guess a rolling wheel will still wear less than a slider in constant contact with the chain.
    FinBro 235 4v #001 - Daily Driven.

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    I'm pretty sure there is a guy doing that.

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    grom case is split today, lots of glitter-metal filings, the transmission gears are out and just cleaning out the case and I will install all new bearings and parts that will make the engine run like brand new since it has close to 10K miles on the case from the old BrianS 170 build.

    I noticed that the Takegawa 5 speed transmission kit did not come with any bearings, so I assume the stock bearings will work or should I replace it with better bearings?

    Yep it looks like I might be able to have the grom running by the first of June.

    Grom case split


    stock 4 speed transmission gears removed

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    look at the picture. the wheel was off center from the chain sideloading it. the beaing is toward the case in the chain, not centered over the middle of the roller. of course it failed, it was side loaded.

    funny, i have the first one ever as it was MY idea in the first place. no issues. Also, Alan is building them right.

    when these are installed the sprocket must be lined up over the center of the chain, this is up to the installer to get right. if they don't, the installer MUST align the arm to make sure this happens. the idea monkey father has about the weight carrying is just incorrect speculation. its a toothed gear, it has no bearing on it (pun intended).

    My Takegawa 181-4v build started today, tearing down my BrianS 170-17191314_1265118213571885_4155412761699731652_n.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by m in sc View Post
    look at the picture. the wheel was off center from the chain sideloading it. the beaing is toward the case in the chain, not centered over the middle of the roller. of course it failed, it was side loaded.

    funny, i have the first one ever as it was MY idea in the first place. no issues. Also, Alan is building them right.

    when these are installed the sprocket must be lined up over the center of the chain, this is up to the installer to get right. if they don't, the installer MUST align the arm to make sure this happens. the idea monkey father has about the weight carrying is just incorrect speculation. its a toothed gear, it has no bearing on it (pun intended).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow what happened to the teeth of that wheel???

    yep you had the first idea for the tooth gear cam chain tensioner arm, and I gave Alan the p/n for the wheel and he started building them. The p/n I got from you.

    I'm going to mount my gear toothed cam chain wheel on my modified Kitaco arm which I milled down the pin so it would go through the bearing with out binding.

    Wait till I get my third DIY oil catch can built "takegawa clone", I will share the design and how to on this website for free so others don't have to spend the big bucks to buy the expensive takegawa unit.

    I have to go pick up some gray gasket sealant tube for the engine case once I get the crank bearings press out and the new Kitaco bearings pressed in.

    My last job will be to port match my Koso 34mm inlet tube to my Takegawa inlet port of the 4v head, might do a complete porting and flow testing at the same time.
    Last edited by CiscoSanJose; 04-21-2017 at 12:55 AM.

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    Continuing my 181 build. I had to get my HFT 20 ton press put together and modified it with 4-3" wheels with brakes. I pressed out the old BrianS crank and rod today.
    I also did a inventory of all the parts that will go into the build.

    After pressing out the crank and bearings I cleaned out the inside of the case since I had metal fillings from the cam chain arm being in touch with the gear.

    Both halves being cleaned out and a magnet run through out the inside of the case to pick up any fillings


    doing a inventory and compare of the parts that will go into the build.

    Comparing a stock OEM crank and rod that was used on the BrianS grom and the new Kitaco crank and rod that will be installed for the 181-4v build.




    Takegawa 5 speed inventory and look over


    Coming in the future in the Bay area San Jose

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    Quote Originally Posted by warubouzu View Post
    There was a post on FB showning one of the metal wheel style cam chain rollers having failed. Monkey Father later posted a comment about it saying the metal wheel carries too much inertia and resulted in the failure (toothed metal wheel seperated from the bearing center it spins on.) Monkey Father also stated that the cam chain roller wheel needs to be considered anconsumable part that simply needs to be replaced more often due to the stresses of BBK and/or 4v heads. That said, the new Kitaco and Takegawa cam chain rollers looked much improved over the FinBro version. Being that the wheels are easily replaceable, they have a wider foot for the tensioner button to ride against as well as the upgraded button itself.
    I dont know how i missed this...anyways, just to clarify things, the person who posted about the tensioner that I made was sent a defective unit from the get go. After we realized that we sent 3 defective tensioners, we contacted all 3 customers and ask them not to install them. Of all the 3 customers, only the one with the failed tensioner didn't sent his tensioner back because he has a ride to attend the next morning. The other two, send the defective ones and were replaced promptly. Since it was confirmed defective from the beginning and it was not installed correctly (sprocket had extreme side wear)...it was destined to fail and that is why it failed. All of the 150 units sold are currently (mostly on 4 valve and 2 valve bbks) are still running. This is the best tensioner out there compare to the rubber wheeled ones for sure.
    Last edited by ALanS; 05-06-2017 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALanS View Post
    I dont know how i missed this...anyways, just to clarify things, the person who posted about the tensioner that I made was sent a defective unit from the get go. After we realized that we sent 3 defective tensioners, we contacted all 3 customers and ask them not to install them. Of all the 3 customers, only the one with the failed tensioner didn't sent his tensioner back because he has a ride to attend the next morning. The other two, send the defective ones and were replaced promptly. Since it was confirmed defective from the beginning and it was not installed correctly (sprocket had extreme side wear)...it was destined to fail and that is why it failed. Not of the 150 unit running currently (mostly on 4 valve and 2 valve bbks) are still running.
    I'm machine my Kitaco cam chain tensioner holding bolt and the little spacer unit on the arm so that it will accept the i/d of the metal sprocket.

    I'm doing two sets of modified Kitaco cam chain arm unit, one for the 181-4v and one for a later project that will involve the Neo 181 kit with the Finbro 186 4v head and piston.

    I'm sure on your metal sprocket build that you removed the blue plastic seal around the bearings so that the bearings will get better oil on it and also for cooling of the rotating mass. I believe that M_in_SC recommended that.

    Only mystery I have on my build is that when I split the case in half I found a copper washer laying inside the case not sure where it goes to. It is about 1/2" dia with a 1/4" hole. So if anyone knows where this washer goes chime in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m in sc View Post
    look at the picture. the wheel was off center from the chain sideloading it. the beaing is toward the case in the chain, not centered over the middle of the roller. of course it failed, it was side loaded.

    funny, i have the first one ever as it was MY idea in the first place. no issues. Also, Alan is building them right.

    when these are installed the sprocket must be lined up over the center of the chain, this is up to the installer to get right. if they don't, the installer MUST align the arm to make sure this happens.
    I just put mine on a couple days ago and noticed it wasn't on center with the chain, bent it over a bit and it lined up just fine. Good to know it wasn't just me!
    ALanS and m in sc like this.

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